NHL in Omaha

[ita]

Oh, trust me, I agree. I am pessimistic on Omaha ever being a "Big 5" professional sports town at any point in my lifetime; however, there is a pretty sizable "let's get a team in some sport, Omaha can do it!" crowd out there who says these things without any thought to arena realities, media market size, Fortune 500 corporate makeup, and local demographics.

So, I just throw the 30 year idea out there as a waypoint to at least talk about it hoping it will go away. This obsession with some on getting NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, or MLS hampers other things we can more realistically accomplish with our sports portfolio and facility makeup like USL Soccer, AHL, or, heck, even the Supernovas.

Good point about the Fortune 500 corporate makeup. Omaha has several Fortune 1000 companies, but I have wondered how many of them have the client type where they would lease a suite....

I think all four Fortune 500's have the potential of being suite holders. I could see Warren Buffett showing up in the BH suite every so often. I could see Valmont and Green Plains, or even companies like BuilderTrend, Medical Solutions, Northern Natural Gas, Streck, Novozymes or other numerous large employers in the region vying for suite space. There are plenty of non-Fortune companies in town that would be season ticket holders, at the very least.

[Bob from Omaha]

In the end it takes a massive ego to pull this off. Here in Detroit the Ford Family owns the Lions, the Little Caesars family owns the Tigers and Red Wings and Tom Gores owns the Pistons. He has a private equity firm. It's pretty much the same nationwide. It has nothing to do with companies buying suites. Of course it helps but it's about TV revenue for the most part. Also licensing. If it's going to take half a billion up front just to buy a franchise it's going to take huge b a l l s.

[Doctor Fate]

In the end it takes a massive ego to pull this off. Here in Detroit the Ford Family owns the Lions, the Little Caesars family owns the Tigers and Red Wings and Tom Gores owns the Pistons. He has a private equity firm. It's pretty much the same nationwide. It has nothing to do with companies buying suites. Of course it helps but it's about TV revenue for the most part. Also licensing. If it's going to take half a billion up front just to buy a franchise it's going to take huge b a l l s.

How do NHL teams share TV revenue? Is it like NBA teams, it is evenly split between all teams? I believe the NHL has the current TV contracts: Rogers Communications ($433 mil per year), NBC ($200 mil per year), Disney/ESPN ($400 mil per year), and TNT ($225 mil per year). Totals $1.255 billion in TV revenue, probably split evenly between the 32 teams. I saw that the NHL makes over $2 billion in ticket sales (including suites and other luxury boxes) with price ranges for $2K to $5K per unit, excluding catering and beverages.

[omaha79]

In the end it takes a massive ego to pull this off. Here in Detroit the Ford Family owns the Lions, the Little Caesars family owns the Tigers and Red Wings and Tom Gores owns the Pistons. He has a private equity firm. It's pretty much the same nationwide. It has nothing to do with companies buying suites. Of course it helps but it's about TV revenue for the most part. Also licensing. If it's going to take half a billion up front just to buy a franchise it's going to take huge b a l l s.

This is true. It happened in OKC because a few leaders in business willed it to happen. St. Louis now has MLS because they had enough people in the business community that wanted to pay the buy in plus the $450 million stadium cost. This was bolstered by having motivated family members in the Enterprise Rent a Car and World Wide Technologies families involved.

Until Omaha has a few of those motivated individuals around town willing to lose their own money on the project, it won't happen.

https://www.stlcitysc.com/about/

[CBJason]

Yep, the Grizzlies are in Memphis because of Fred Smith (FedEx). IDK what other billionaires Omaha has besides Buffet but he definitely isn’t going to be apart of anything like this. I guess the Rickett’s (Pete). Their family keeps growing their sports business.

[CBJason]

Also, the NHL is already at 32 teams which seams to be the sweet spot for our sports leagues. Can they really handle anymore teams? The NHL seams to be the least financially stable league anyway.

[omaha79]

Also, the NHL is already at 32 teams which seams to be the sweet spot for our sports leagues. Can they really handle anymore teams? The NHL seams to be the least financially stable league anyway.

I've thought about this as well. If the NHL wants to keep growing, it's literally for the sake of those league entrance fees ponzi scheme. Because, there aren't that many tv markets that are really going to up the value to the point where you come out ahead with the additional mouths to feed at the league table. 34 is a big number and you're going to eventually start diluting the product to the point where you're watching minor league teams. The NHL is an international sport moreso than the NFL or baseball. So, there is more talent to pull from, but at some point, something has to give.

The NBA has been smart. If adding another team doesn't add value to the tv deal, they aren't going to do it. Most years, only about 4-5 teams have a realistic shot in the NBA anyway and the rest are just cannon fodder for the teams that have the big stars, wherever they are at that time. If you don't have one of the bigger stars, you have no chance in that system. For many years, and it's gotten better of late, it was only a handful of squads that had even won championships and they were in predictable markets, with predictable stars like LA, Miami, Boston, Dallas, Houston, Golden State, Houston, Detroit, and San Antonio. Those 8 franchises won the bulk of the NBA titles from the early 1980's to roughly 2018. The rest of the squads should have just gotten participation trophies. So, if roughly 25 teams have zero chance of making the finals in any given year, why add more?

[Doctor Fate]

I've thought about this as well. If the NHL wants to keep growing, it's literally for the sake of those league entrance fees ponzi scheme. Because, there aren't that many tv markets that are really going to up the value to the point where you come out ahead with the additional mouths to feed at the league table. 34 is a big number and you're going to eventually start diluting the product to the point where you're watching minor league teams. The NHL is an international sport moreso than the NFL or baseball. So, there is more talent to pull from, but at some point, something has to give.

The NBA has been smart. If adding another team doesn't add value to the tv deal, they aren't going to do it. Most years, only about 4-5 teams have a realistic shot in the NBA anyway and the rest are just cannon fodder for the teams that have the big stars, wherever they are at that time. If you don't have one of the bigger stars, you have no chance in that system. For many years, and it's gotten better of late, it was only a handful of squads that had even won championships and they were in predictable markets, with predictable stars like LA, Miami, Boston, Dallas, Houston, Golden State, Houston, Detroit, and San Antonio. Those 8 franchises won the bulk of the NBA titles from the early 1980's to roughly 2018. The rest of the squads should have just gotten participation trophies. So, if roughly 25 teams have zero chance of making the finals in any given year, why add more?

Agreed about the NBA. According to Forbes, NBA TV revenue totaled $3.16 billion with about $500 million of that coming from outside the US and that will only continue to go up as the NBA rapidly grows overseas. Ticket sales (including suites and boxes) were about $2.2 billion and probably maxed out until expansion happens. The NBA will expand to Mexico City at some point, likely in the second round of expansions, and I'm sure that grow TV revenue for the NBA significantly. Seattle and Las Vegas will get expansion teams first and I'm sure will be huge deals. The NBA has also been smart in how they market for TV by focusing on and advertising start matchups, which is possible by the nature of the sport, and by the way they partner with content creators and utilize social media.

[riceweb]

I thought about this some more, and the obvious spot for the team is Sarpy County. The artificial Ashland Lake and Nebraska Crossing folks have a lot of sway with The Powers That Be and they have access to a ton of capital. And that area can draw equally from Lincoln and Omaha, effectively increasing the population base to around 1.3-1.4m people.

Wouldn't at all surprise me if they could make an arena happen down in that area.

[ita]

I thought about this some more, and the obvious spot for the team is Sarpy County. The artificial Ashland Lake and Nebraska Crossing folks have a lot of sway with The Powers That Be and they have access to a ton of capital. And that area can draw equally from Lincoln and Omaha, effectively increasing the population base to around 1.3-1.4m people.

Wouldn't at all surprise me if they could make an arena happen down in that area.

I know we are talking about something that is very unlikely to happen, but sticking this around Ashland makes it farther from more people then I does make it closer. Stratcom has struggled with attendance, largely due to location. Anything like a new stadium of this nature that requires fairly consistent attendance needs to me in the metro. If an NHL team came to the area, it's already going to draw people from Lincoln because it's the closest pro team. My personal, and maybe wrong opinion, on sticking amenity stuff like this in the middle.

[riceweb]

My point is more about manipulation of numbers to make projects look more viable because--on paper--they draw from a larger combined market than Omaha or Lincoln in isolation. And somehow that entire Ashland/Gretna area has a ton of political power. If anyone/any area were to get state money to build an arena for the NHL, I think it would be Gretna/Ashland.

It's a giant land grab--and maybe a bit of a bubble--and lots of people will become very wealthy through the transformation of this area. And through that process, we might just end up with an NHL team, even if the entire thing is a boondoggle.

[Erik]

Gross. $1.5 billion for that? Since we're Omaha, they probably want our tongues on their boots at least once a week.

Forget that noise.

[riceweb]

Guessing it would be more than $1.5b. Cost to buy a franchise (existing or new) and cost for a new dome will probably be over $2b. And that's just table stakes.

[Athomsfere]

I thought about this some more, and the obvious spot for the team is Sarpy County. The artificial Ashland Lake and Nebraska Crossing folks have a lot of sway with The Powers That Be and they have access to a ton of capital. And that area can draw equally from Lincoln and Omaha, effectively increasing the population base to around 1.3-1.4m people.

Wouldn't at all surprise me if they could make an arena happen down in that area.

I know we are talking about something that is very unlikely to happen, but sticking this around Ashland makes it farther from more people then I does make it closer. Stratcom has struggled with attendance, largely due to location. Anything like a new stadium of this nature that requires fairly consistent attendance needs to me in the metro. If an NHL team came to the area, it's already going to draw people from Lincoln because it's the closest pro team. My personal, and maybe wrong opinion, on sticking amenity stuff like this in the middle.

I think you are right.

STRATCOM has been "on the list" for another visit for years. But when I have time, I don't want to go to the middle of nowhere.

IMO for most sports you want the venue where people actually want to be. A place with hotels, pre-game dinner, after game drinks. Corn fields ain't cutting it.

[OmahaRedWing]

I would highly recommend listening to Sharp and Handley segment 3 from this morning. They talk about the NHL in Omaha. Sounds like it's still a long shot but there is some traction. I think Gary said, "this is real."

One interesting note and it sounded like he has talked to those who contacted NHL Gary Bettman. It sounds like the arena if Omaha lands this could be a part of the district being proposed in Gretna.

[Cermak]

Maybe the NHL wants to see how a team would do in a smallish market like Omaha, with little other competition. Doubt we get it but never say never.

[OmahaRedWing]

Maybe the NHL wants to see how a team would do in a smallish market like Omaha, with little other competition. Doubt we get it but never say never.

Yeah I agree. I thought the interesting angle was the arena in Gretna off I80 to tie in Lincoln more directly. I would almost bet the team name would be Nebraska not Omaha.

I think the blueprint for the team in Omaha would be OKC. Small market for big league standards, but dominant within it's own market and a regional draw.

[almighty_tuna]

Smaller market, indeed. Lincoln/Omaha is a good 700K+ smaller than the smallest current NHL market.

[Greg S]

Smaller market, indeed. Lincoln/Omaha is a good 700K+ smaller than the smallest current NHL market.

Is that Winnipeg? I would have thought we were much closer.

How does that compare with OKC and the NBA?

[almighty_tuna]

Smaller market, indeed. Lincoln/Omaha is a good 700K+ smaller than the smallest current NHL market.

Is that Winnipeg? I would have thought we were much closer.

How does that compare with OKC and the NBA?

My bad, I was looking at US franchises only. Vegas is the smallest one, next largest is Columbus. Winnipeg is more like a Des Moines sized market. An Omaha/Lincoln market would be aboot the same size as Calgary.

[Greg S]

Smaller market, indeed. Lincoln/Omaha is a good 700K+ smaller than the smallest current NHL market.

Is that Winnipeg? I would have thought we were much closer.

How does that compare with OKC and the NBA?

My bad, I was looking at US franchises only. Vegas is the smallest one, next largest is Columbus. Winnipeg is more like a Des Moines sized market. An Omaha/Lincoln market would be aboot the same size as Calgary.

Are you sure Vegas and Columbus are smaller than Buffalo? I think Raleigh is smaller than Vegas and Columbus too.

[Louie]

Smaller market, indeed. Lincoln/Omaha is a good 700K+ smaller than the smallest current NHL market.

Is that Winnipeg? I would have thought we were much closer.

How does that compare with OKC and the NBA?

My bad, I was looking at US franchises only. Vegas is the smallest one, next largest is Columbus. Winnipeg is more like a Des Moines sized market. An Omaha/Lincoln market would be aboot the same size as Calgary.

Are you sure Vegas and Columbus are smaller than Buffalo? I think Raleigh is smaller than Vegas and Columbus too.

Winnipeg is the smallest media market for NHL. Buffalo is second for both NHL and NFL.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_A ... franchises

[thenewguy]

this would be great...but there's absolutely no way on earth it will ever happen

[OmahaRedWing]

this would be great...but there's absolutely no way on earth it will ever happen

Yeah, the longest of long shots. That being said, I think people would have said the same thing about OKC getting a team before it happened.

Just to reiterate, I recommend everyone interested to listen to segment 3 from today's Sharp and Handley. Sharp definitely says he spoke to the individual that has been in contact with the NHL.

[thenewguy]

this would be great...but there's absolutely no way on earth it will ever happen

Yeah, the longest of long shots. That being said, I think people would have said the same thing about OKC getting a team before it happened.

Just to reiterate, I recommend everyone interested to listen to segment 3 from today's Sharp and Handley. Sharp definitely says he spoke to the individual that has been in contact with the NHL.

i mean, it would be freaking awesome. So since it perked my ears up, I looked and the smallest arena is Winnipeg at 15,321. Next is New Jersey at 16,514, then the islanders (17,113), Coyotes (17,125), Seattle (17,151), Nashville (17,159), Anaheim (17,174), Vegas (17,368), then Omaha with the CHI Health Center at 17,560. According to DLR's website, this capacity is for basketball, hockey, volleyball, and concerts. So, there wouldn't necessarily be a need for a new venue, hypothetically speaking. That is, if they could figure out the revenue streaming. I looked at how big the lot is for the Civic, thinking that if they had to build new, it may work. It's like 600' x 600' square, give or take. By comparison, the arena in Nashville is about that long, but a bit narrower....so if it had to be done, it could ;)

[Doctor Fate]

this would be great...but there's absolutely no way on earth it will ever happen

Yeah, the longest of long shots. That being said, I think people would have said the same thing about OKC getting a team before it happened.

Just to reiterate, I recommend everyone interested to listen to segment 3 from today's Sharp and Handley. Sharp definitely says he spoke to the individual that has been in contact with the NHL.

i mean, it would be freaking awesome. So since it perked my ears up, I looked and the smallest arena is Winnipeg at 15,321. Next is New Jersey at 16,514, then the islanders (17,113), Coyotes (17,125), Seattle (17,151), Nashville (17,159), Anaheim (17,174), Vegas (17,368), then Omaha with the CHI Health Center at 17,560. According to DLR's website, this capacity is for basketball, hockey, volleyball, and concerts. So, there wouldn't necessarily be a need for a new venue, hypothetically speaking. That is, if they could figure out the revenue streaming. I looked at how big the lot is for the Civic, thinking that if they had to build new, it may work. It's like 600' x 600' square, give or take. By comparison, the arena in Nashville is about that long, but a bit narrower....so if it had to be done, it could ;)

On the segment that OmahaRedWing is referring to, they said something like NHL owners want to control as much revenue as possible and that's why they would not use the CHI Health Center.

[CBJason]

Yeah, the longest of long shots. That being said, I think people would have said the same thing about OKC getting a team before it happened.

Again, the reason OKC and Memphis got their teams is because the very rich CEOs of corporations they founded went in and bought the teams to move them to their hometowns! I keep asking this, who in Omaha besides Buffet and Ricketts would be able and willing to pull of something like this?

[jag42]

This article identifies Rod Yates, owner and operator of Nebraska Crossing, as the interested party.


https://omaha.com/news/local/business/n ... -top-story

Yeah, the longest of long shots. That being said, I think people would have said the same thing about OKC getting a team before it happened.

Again, the reason OKC and Memphis got their teams is because the very rich CEOs of corporations they founded went in and bought the teams to move them to their hometowns! I keep asking this, who in Omaha besides Buffet and Ricketts would be able and willing to pull of something like this?

[Omaha Cowboy]

Yeah, the longest of long shots. That being said, I think people would have said the same thing about OKC getting a team before it happened.

Again, the reason OKC and Memphis got their teams is because the very rich CEOs of corporations they founded went in and bought the teams to move them to their hometowns!

This is 100% correct..

Could this same thing happen for Omaha? Sure it could.. The question, as always- Will it?…

Ciao..LiO…Peace

[Louie]

This article identifies Rod Yates, owner and operator of Nebraska Crossing, as the interested party.


https://omaha.com/news/local/business/n ... -top-story

Yeah, the longest of long shots. That being said, I think people would have said the same thing about OKC getting a team before it happened.

Again, the reason OKC and Memphis got their teams is because the very rich CEOs of corporations they founded went in and bought the teams to move them to their hometowns! I keep asking this, who in Omaha besides Buffet and Ricketts would be able and willing to pull of something like this?

He doesn’t have the cash to do this alone.

[Doctor Fate]

Yeah, the longest of long shots. That being said, I think people would have said the same thing about OKC getting a team before it happened.

Again, the reason OKC and Memphis got their teams is because the very rich CEOs of corporations they founded went in and bought the teams to move them to their hometowns! I keep asking this, who in Omaha besides Buffet and Ricketts would be able and willing to pull of something like this?

Michael Heisley was not from Memphis, in fact he had no connection to Memphis. Memphis was selected by him because he felt it had a corporate base to support the Grizzlies and the NBA approved it after conducting their own analysis. He was worth about $1 billion in 2006, an half decade after the purchase and was the #374 richest person in America. His wealth came from companies he purchased and turned around.

Clayton Bennett and Tom Ward formed an investment group to buy the Sonics and, yes, had no intent to keep them there. They were both from near or in Oklahoma City. Their combined net worth at the time was about $2 billion, with most of that coming from Ward (who was the #215 richest American at the time.

Another billionaire in Omaha is Henry Davis.

[ita]

Yeah, the longest of long shots. That being said, I think people would have said the same thing about OKC getting a team before it happened.

Again, the reason OKC and Memphis got their teams is because the very rich CEOs of corporations they founded went in and bought the teams to move them to their hometowns! I keep asking this, who in Omaha besides Buffet and Ricketts would be able and willing to pull of something like this?

Michael Heisley was not from Memphis, in fact he had no connection to Memphis. Memphis was selected by him because he felt it had a corporate base to support the Grizzlies and the NBA approved it after conducting their own analysis. He was worth about $1 billion in 2006, an half decade after the purchase and was the #374 richest person in America. His wealth came from companies he purchased and turned around.

Clayton Bennett and Tom Ward formed an investment group to buy the Sonics and, yes, had no intent to keep them there. They were both from near or in Oklahoma City. Their combined net worth at the time was about $2 billion, with most of that coming from Ward (who was the #215 richest American at the time.

Another billionaire in Omaha is Henry Davis.

Henry davis is a fairly quiet billionaire though he is involved in the community. Per Forbes, he's worth $2.4B. it's much less then someone like Gayle Benson that owns the Pelicans and Saints, but he's got the money to be at least a part owner.

[Doctor Fate]

Again, the reason OKC and Memphis got their teams is because the very rich CEOs of corporations they founded went in and bought the teams to move them to their hometowns! I keep asking this, who in Omaha besides Buffet and Ricketts would be able and willing to pull of something like this?

Michael Heisley was not from Memphis, in fact he had no connection to Memphis. Memphis was selected by him because he felt it had a corporate base to support the Grizzlies and the NBA approved it after conducting their own analysis. He was worth about $1 billion in 2006, an half decade after the purchase and was the #374 richest person in America. His wealth came from companies he purchased and turned around.

Clayton Bennett and Tom Ward formed an investment group to buy the Sonics and, yes, had no intent to keep them there. They were both from near or in Oklahoma City. Their combined net worth at the time was about $2 billion, with most of that coming from Ward (who was the #215 richest American at the time.

Another billionaire in Omaha is Henry Davis.

Henry davis is a fairly quiet billionaire though he is involved in the community. Per Forbes, he's worth $2.4B. it's much less then someone like Gayle Benson that owns the Pelicans and Saints, but he's got the money to be at least a part owner.

That is true. Though Gayle was worth significantly less when the Pelicans (Hornets at the time) were purchased by her husband in 2012, who was worth $1.1 billion and already owned the Saints.

But I agree too that this NHL proposal would probably have to be from a group.

[jomaha9]

I posted this in the other thread on the Good Life district.

I actually think this makes some sense with the rumors of the NHL Team. If they develop an athletic training complex that houses the US Olympic Volleyball Team at Nebraska Crossing, they could also develop an NHL practice facility. The NHL Team would likely play games at CHI because the developer is not going to build an arena. Even so, I see this as lucrative for the Good Life people, even if the games are not played at that district.

[Big E]

An Omaha/Lincoln market would be aboot the same size as Calgary.

You are seen and appreciated.

[Greg S]

Ownership groups are nothing new. John Sherman formed one with a bunch of well connected high rollers in KC (guys from KC Southern, JE Dunn Construction, UMB and such). His group also includes Eric Stonestreet and Patrick Mahommes. They not only coughed up the $1billion to buy the Royals but are investing a second billion on the new stadium and development around it. I would assume more and more teams will follow similar paths since the price of franchises and expansion teams has climbed so much.

Greg

[HskrFanMike]

This article identifies Rod Yates, owner and operator of Nebraska Crossing, as the interested party.


https://omaha.com/news/local/business/n ... -top-story

Yeah, the longest of long shots. That being said, I think people would have said the same thing about OKC getting a team before it happened.

This went from "longest of long shots" to "better odds to win Powerball". I mean, Yates has been trying to put something together at Crossroads for well over 10 years, and that's now only just a pile of dirt. An NHL team playing in Gretna?

[windsor]

This article identifies Rod Yates, owner and operator of Nebraska Crossing, as the interested party.


https://omaha.com/news/local/business/n ... -top-story

Yeah, the longest of long shots. That being said, I think people would have said the same thing about OKC getting a team before it happened.

This went from "longest of long shots" to "better odds to win Powerball". I mean, Yates has been trying to put something together at Crossroads for well over 10 years, and that's now only just a pile of dirt. An NHL team playing in Gretna?

I agree the odds of this happening are not good. However, Yates has not been involved in crossroads for many years now, Lockwood replaced him.

[Coyote]

Top 6 NHL Expansion Cities get *REVEALED*



Discussing NHL expansion with Houston, Atlanta, Cincinnati, and more

[Brad]

Rod Yates will be on Grow Omaha this morning.