Downtown Omaha Master Plan

[PotatoeEatsFish]

What then? Bus culture? Train culture?

Okay, all joking aside, cars aren't going anywhere anytime soon. The fact is we do need those roads like it or not.

Ah yes let’s just not plan for the future at all. I think we could put a freeway right through the Old Market, that’s really gonna attract young professionals!

[Louie]

What then? Bus culture? Train culture?

Okay, all joking aside, cars aren't going anywhere anytime soon. The fact is we do need those roads like it or not.

Ah yes let’s just not plan for the future at all. I think we could put a freeway right through the Old Market, that’s really gonna attract young professionals!

LOLOL. It's one thing to accept the roads as they are, but who on earth thinks that more lanes is a good idea for Dodge east of 72nd?? Like what year is it?

[mrsticka]

What then? Bus culture? Train culture?

Okay, all joking aside, cars aren't going anywhere anytime soon. The fact is we do need those roads like it or not.

Ah yes let’s just not plan for the future at all. I think we could put a freeway right through the Old Market, that’s really gonna attract young professionals!

I didn't say that. I'm just merely stating a fact. Cars are here to stay. You don't have to like it, but that's how it is. As difficult as it may be for some to believe, there are folks out there who don't want to be totally dependent on public transportation to get them everywhere.

[Renovator2559]

What then? Bus culture? Train culture?

Okay, all joking aside, cars aren't going anywhere anytime soon. The fact is we do need those roads like it or not.

Ah yes let’s just not plan for the future at all. I think we could put a freeway right through the Old Market, that’s really gonna attract young professionals!

I didn't say that. I'm just merely stating a fact. Cars are here to stay. You don't have to like it, but that's how it is. As difficult as it may be for some to believe, there are folks out there who don't want to be totally dependent on public transportation to get them everywhere.

No one is banning cars or removing them. People only use cars because that's the only way to get around because of unwalkable sprawling infrastructure. Since thats the only way to travel, everyone clogs the streets.

What needs to happen is for communities to be more walkable with all their walkable services and provide better public transport.

And no it's not the people that voted to make public infrastructure. Greedy monopolistic car companies bought all streetcar networks and ran them to the ground, so they could sell just cars. Big oil and the Big 3 colluded.

People then can choose public for short trips and reserve the car for special cases that are not reachable by other means.


It is no longer sustainable to tax subsidize car infrastructure and hide the true cost of car infrastructure, as well as continuing to build culdesacs that are mooching of the city via heavy tax subsidies, since they don't pay their infrastructure. This cycle keeps making the whole city poor with the expensive ever expanding lanes with low returns of suburban sprawl.

It can be difficult to see what a truly vibrant a city should be. If people don't visit other walkable vibrant cities are not visited or, if all that the person knows is just being isolated in the culdesac, driving through a sea of ugly strip malls and parking lots

The isolated prison called the culdesac of just residential, which isolates everyone did not exist in the past and now we've seen how entire cities have decayed and gone in decline because of the debt they have incurred, following the out of touch needs of suburbanites.

[mrsticka]

Well, the city does does have several pedestrian bridges above some streets. Sounds pretty walking friendly to me. They can avoid all the heavy traffic.

[Garrett]

What then? Bus culture? Train culture?

Okay, all joking aside, cars aren't going anywhere anytime soon. The fact is we do need those roads like it or not.

Ah yes let’s just not plan for the future at all. I think we could put a freeway right through the Old Market, that’s really gonna attract young professionals!

I didn't say that. I'm just merely stating a fact. Cars are here to stay. You don't have to like it, but that's how it is. As difficult as it may be for some to believe, there are folks out there who don't want to be totally dependent on public transportation to get them everywhere.

We’ve created a society where the vast majority of people are totally dependent on a car to get them everywhere. The average cost of car ownership is up to $12,000 per year, according to AAA. Needing to use a car for every day to day task is an aberration in human history, not the norm. If people want to own a car and use it for everything, go for it. But forcing people to, as we do now, is ridiculous. People should always have a choice, and not just in small sections of certain cities. There should be no reason people who cannot drive, such as disabled, children, and the elderly, are entirely cut off from access in a modern city but they are.

[mrsticka]

What then? Bus culture? Train culture?

Okay, all joking aside, cars aren't going anywhere anytime soon. The fact is we do need those roads like it or not.

Ah yes let’s just not plan for the future at all. I think we could put a freeway right through the Old Market, that’s really gonna attract young professionals!

I didn't say that. I'm just merely stating a fact. Cars are here to stay. You don't have to like it, but that's how it is. As difficult as it may be for some to believe, there are folks out there who don't want to be totally dependent on public transportation to get them everywhere.

We’ve created a society where the vast majority of people are totally dependent on a car to get them everywhere. The average cost of car ownership is up to $12,000 per year, according to AAA. Needing to use a car for every day to day task is an aberration in human history, not the norm. If people want to own a car and use it for everything, go for it. But forcing people to, as we do now, is ridiculous. People should always have a choice, and not just in small sections of certain cities. There should be no reason people who cannot drive, such as disabled, children, and the elderly, are entirely cut off from access in a modern city but they are.

Forcing? Who's forcing them? I'm certainly not.

[Garrett]

What then? Bus culture? Train culture?

Okay, all joking aside, cars aren't going anywhere anytime soon. The fact is we do need those roads like it or not.

Ah yes let’s just not plan for the future at all. I think we could put a freeway right through the Old Market, that’s really gonna attract young professionals!

I didn't say that. I'm just merely stating a fact. Cars are here to stay. You don't have to like it, but that's how it is. As difficult as it may be for some to believe, there are folks out there who don't want to be totally dependent on public transportation to get them everywhere.

We’ve created a society where the vast majority of people are totally dependent on a car to get them everywhere. The average cost of car ownership is up to $12,000 per year, according to AAA. Needing to use a car for every day to day task is an aberration in human history, not the norm. If people want to own a car and use it for everything, go for it. But forcing people to, as we do now, is ridiculous. People should always have a choice, and not just in small sections of certain cities. There should be no reason people who cannot drive, such as disabled, children, and the elderly, are entirely cut off from access in a modern city but they are.

Forcing? Who's forcing them? I'm certainly not.

You picked one thing out of my statement and acted like I was personally accusing you? Interesting. The way we have built cities for the last 70 years forces people to own a car. Car culture forces them. If you cannot reasonably and safely run simple daily errands without getting into a car, you are being forced by the planning choices of your city to use one.

[mrsticka]

What then? Bus culture? Train culture?

Okay, all joking aside, cars aren't going anywhere anytime soon. The fact is we do need those roads like it or not.

Ah yes let’s just not plan for the future at all. I think we could put a freeway right through the Old Market, that’s really gonna attract young professionals!

I didn't say that. I'm just merely stating a fact. Cars are here to stay. You don't have to like it, but that's how it is. As difficult as it may be for some to believe, there are folks out there who don't want to be totally dependent on public transportation to get them everywhere.

We’ve created a society where the vast majority of people are totally dependent on a car to get them everywhere. The average cost of car ownership is up to $12,000 per year, according to AAA. Needing to use a car for every day to day task is an aberration in human history, not the norm. If people want to own a car and use it for everything, go for it. But forcing people to, as we do now, is ridiculous. People should always have a choice, and not just in small sections of certain cities. There should be no reason people who cannot drive, such as disabled, children, and the elderly, are entirely cut off from access in a modern city but they are.

Forcing? Who's forcing them? I'm certainly not.

You picked one thing out of my statement and acted like I was personally accusing you? Interesting. The way we have built cities for the last 70 years forces people to own a car. Car culture forces them. If you cannot reasonably and safely run simple daily errands without getting into a car, you are being forced by the planning choices of your city to use one.

It just seems like everybody's twisting my words around to make it sound like I don't care about houses and/or neighborhoods, etc.

Sure, public transportation has its conveniences and benefits such as not having a car and paying it off for months if not years or needing insurance. Not everybody has a driver's license.

[thenewguy]

the way i see it is this:

Many Americans view auto-ownership like the right to have a gun. You can say what you want until you are blue in the face, but the harsh reality is that a lot of people like them and will absolutely not give them up. All you can do then at that point is work to balance it out and offer the others an alternative. The two ideologies have to find a way to coexist, which i think is starting to happen. It's the same as wanting to eliminate cars that are internal combustion. It is something that can happen over time, but right now, we cannot afford to ignore the fact that our infrastructure is simply unable to handle a 100% petrol free driving environment at the moment. Again, finding a way to integrate the two and offer alternatives so we can slowly steer the ship in that direction is about the only way it will ever happen

[halgy]

No one is seriously suggesting getting rid of all cars. But that doesn't mean that we have to further promote their use, especially not downtown (which, I'll remind everyone, what this thread is about). If car usage can be reduced anywhere in Omaha, it is downtown. If people in the rest of the city want to drive more, then fine (ignoring the unsustainable cost). But down here, we largely want better walking, biking, and transit infrastructure; that is why we live downtown instead of elsewhere. If making those improvements makes it slightly less convenient for drivers to come down here, then so be it.

[mrsticka]

No one is seriously suggesting getting rid of all cars. But that doesn't mean that we have to further promote their use, especially not downtown (which, I'll remind everyone, what this thread is about). If car usage can be reduced anywhere in Omaha, it is downtown. If people in the rest of the city want to drive more, then fine (ignoring the unsustainable cost). But down here, we largely want better walking, biking, and transit infrastructure; that is why we live downtown instead of elsewhere. If making those improvements makes it slightly less convenient for drivers to come down here, then so be it.

Who's this "we" you're talking about?

[halgy]

No one is seriously suggesting getting rid of all cars. But that doesn't mean that we have to further promote their use, especially not downtown (which, I'll remind everyone, what this thread is about). If car usage can be reduced anywhere in Omaha, it is downtown. If people in the rest of the city want to drive more, then fine (ignoring the unsustainable cost). But down here, we largely want better walking, biking, and transit infrastructure; that is why we live downtown instead of elsewhere. If making those improvements makes it slightly less convenient for drivers to come down here, then so be it.

Who's this "we" you're talking about?

Omaha residents, downtown residents, and downtown residents, respectively.

[skip]

No one is seriously suggesting getting rid of all cars. But that doesn't mean that we have to further promote their use, especially not downtown (which, I'll remind everyone, what this thread is about). If car usage can be reduced anywhere in Omaha, it is downtown. If people in the rest of the city want to drive more, then fine (ignoring the unsustainable cost). But down here, we largely want better walking, biking, and transit infrastructure; that is why we live downtown instead of elsewhere. If making those improvements makes it slightly less convenient for drivers to come down here, then so be it.

Who's this "we" you're talking about?

Omaha residents, downtown residents, and downtown residents, respectively.

Most people on this forum mr stick

[Busguy2010]

I always thought it'd be pretty cool to have a second residence downtown, as long as it comes with a parking spot. After I stayed at the Hyatt a few weeks ago, I actually looked into apartments and, I forget the name of it, the old tower south of the Orpheum only wants $800 a month. I'll never give up on my house, but it would be cool to stay either place 70/30 as long as there's parking. I'd never want to be confined by the limits of not having a vehicle.

[Louie]

No one is seriously suggesting getting rid of all cars. But that doesn't mean that we have to further promote their use, especially not downtown (which, I'll remind everyone, what this thread is about). If car usage can be reduced anywhere in Omaha, it is downtown. If people in the rest of the city want to drive more, then fine (ignoring the unsustainable cost). But down here, we largely want better walking, biking, and transit infrastructure; that is why we live downtown instead of elsewhere. If making those improvements makes it slightly less convenient for drivers to come down here, then so be it.

Who's this "we" you're talking about?

Omaha residents, downtown residents, and downtown residents, respectively.

Most people on this forum mr stick

Agreed. I’m 100% behind this mentality.

[ita]

No one is seriously suggesting getting rid of all cars. But that doesn't mean that we have to further promote their use, especially not downtown (which, I'll remind everyone, what this thread is about). If car usage can be reduced anywhere in Omaha, it is downtown. If people in the rest of the city want to drive more, then fine (ignoring the unsustainable cost). But down here, we largely want better walking, biking, and transit infrastructure; that is why we live downtown instead of elsewhere. If making those improvements makes it slightly less convenient for drivers to come down here, then so be it.

Who's this "we" you're talking about?

Omaha residents, downtown residents, and downtown residents, respectively.

Most people on this forum mr stick

Agreed. I’m 100% behind this mentality.

To me, the key to halgy's statement is that downtown needs more options and better infrastructure for walking, biking, and transit. That does not necessarily mean using a car downtown will be any worse than driving out west. I think that if there were more residents, visitors, employees travelling by means other than driving because of more options/better infrastructure, that would lessen congestion, open up parking for people who do choose to or have to drive. Honestly, I find it easier to drive downtown than around where I live.

[mrsticka]

No one is seriously suggesting getting rid of all cars. But that doesn't mean that we have to further promote their use, especially not downtown (which, I'll remind everyone, what this thread is about). If car usage can be reduced anywhere in Omaha, it is downtown. If people in the rest of the city want to drive more, then fine (ignoring the unsustainable cost). But down here, we largely want better walking, biking, and transit infrastructure; that is why we live downtown instead of elsewhere. If making those improvements makes it slightly less convenient for drivers to come down here, then so be it.

Who's this "we" you're talking about?

Omaha residents, downtown residents, and downtown residents, respectively.

Most people on this forum mr stick

Agreed. I’m 100% behind this mentality.

To me, the key to halgy's statement is that downtown needs more options and better infrastructure for walking, biking, and transit. That does not necessarily mean using a car downtown will be any worse than driving out west. I think that if there were more residents, visitors, employees travelling by means other than driving because of more options/better infrastructure, that would lessen congestion, open up parking for people who do choose to or have to drive. Honestly, I find it easier to drive downtown than around where I live.

Well, let's see. There are pedestrian bridges, bike lanes and some streets have been given road diets. 24th, 30th and Leavenworth Streets used to be 4 lanes (2 in each direction). But now they're only 3 (1 in each direction and a center turn lane). At least some parts anyway. Not the whole entire streets.

Sounds walker and biker friendly to me. And I'm not the only one who thinks so.

[Renovator2559]

No one is seriously suggesting getting rid of all cars. But that doesn't mean that we have to further promote their use, especially not downtown (which, I'll remind everyone, what this thread is about). If car usage can be reduced anywhere in Omaha, it is downtown. If people in the rest of the city want to drive more, then fine (ignoring the unsustainable cost). But down here, we largely want better walking, biking, and transit infrastructure; that is why we live downtown instead of elsewhere. If making those improvements makes it slightly less convenient for drivers to come down here, then so be it.

Who's this "we" you're talking about?

Omaha residents, downtown residents, and downtown residents, respectively.

Most people on this forum mr stick

Agreed. I’m 100% behind this mentality.

To me, the key to halgy's statement is that downtown needs more options and better infrastructure for walking, biking, and transit. That does not necessarily mean using a car downtown will be any worse than driving out west. I think that if there were more residents, visitors, employees travelling by means other than driving because of more options/better infrastructure, that would lessen congestion, open up parking for people who do choose to or have to drive. Honestly, I find it easier to drive downtown than around where I live.

Well, let's see. There are pedestrian bridges, bike lanes and some streets have been given road diets. 24th, 30th and Leavenworth Streets used to be 4 lanes (2 in each direction). But now they're only 3 (1 in each direction and a center turn lane). At least some parts anyway. Not the whole entire streets.

Sounds walker and biker friendly to me. And I'm not the only one who thinks so.

Pedestrian bridges are car infrastructure patch fixes. There's nothing pleasent of being forced to go up bridges and being confined in certain points. Again you are treating pedestrians as second class citizens. Fast moving roads still pose a barrier and a deterrant for people to walk around. Cars that go above 40mph introduce a lot of unplesant noise pollution that

There's no such thing as vibrant car centric city. The cities that have truely walkable environment, allow for stronger social fabric and economic generating powerhouses.

No one is seriously suggesting getting rid of all cars. But that doesn't mean that we have to further promote their use, especially not downtown (which, I'll remind everyone, what this thread is about). If car usage can be reduced anywhere in Omaha, it is downtown. If people in the rest of the city want to drive more, then fine (ignoring the unsustainable cost). But down here, we largely want better walking, biking, and transit infrastructure; that is why we live downtown instead of elsewhere. If making those improvements makes it slightly less convenient for drivers to come down here, then so be it.

Here's the thing, if the suburbanites would pay their fare share of infrastructure instead of mooching off the entire city with tax subsidise. Then we could just not say anything about their sheltered isolated lifestyle that is leading teens in rise in depression because they have no third places except being at home in a sea of cookie cutter unwalkable prisons.

https://www.euronews.com/health/2023/05 ... afes%20and

How is it any fair that the dense places have to pay more in taxes, so that those taxes move to waste on aging infrastructure for suburbanites that are unable to pay. Why is most infrastructere falling appart all over the country? The huge debt that sprawling car infrastructure causes. Including price increases and increased housing prices for all.

I know many of you know this and you are familiar with the source but I'm just placing this for our brothers thar are not informed and cling to magical economic viability of car centric cities that don't exist.

Suburbia is Subsidized: Here's the Math [ST07] - YouTube

[mrsticka]

No one is seriously suggesting getting rid of all cars. But that doesn't mean that we have to further promote their use, especially not downtown (which, I'll remind everyone, what this thread is about). If car usage can be reduced anywhere in Omaha, it is downtown. If people in the rest of the city want to drive more, then fine (ignoring the unsustainable cost). But down here, we largely want better walking, biking, and transit infrastructure; that is why we live downtown instead of elsewhere. If making those improvements makes it slightly less convenient for drivers to come down here, then so be it.

Who's this "we" you're talking about?

Omaha residents, downtown residents, and downtown residents, respectively.

Most people on this forum mr stick

Agreed. I’m 100% behind this mentality.

To me, the key to halgy's statement is that downtown needs more options and better infrastructure for walking, biking, and transit. That does not necessarily mean using a car downtown will be any worse than driving out west. I think that if there were more residents, visitors, employees travelling by means other than driving because of more options/better infrastructure, that would lessen congestion, open up parking for people who do choose to or have to drive. Honestly, I find it easier to drive downtown than around where I live.

Well, let's see. There are pedestrian bridges, bike lanes and some streets have been given road diets. 24th, 30th and Leavenworth Streets used to be 4 lanes (2 in each direction). But now they're only 3 (1 in each direction and a center turn lane). At least some parts anyway. Not the whole entire streets.

Sounds walker and biker friendly to me. And I'm not the only one who thinks so.

Pedestrian bridges are car infrastructure patch fixes. There's nothing pleasent of being forced to go up bridges and being confined in certain points. Again you are treating pedestrians as second class citizens. Fast moving roads still pose a barrier and a deterrant for people to walk around. Cars that go above 40mph introduce a lot of unplesant noise pollution that

Treating pedestrians as second class citizens? I am doing no such thing. I can't think of any other city that has as many pedestrian bridges as Omaha does. Pedestrians can just cross those bridges to avoid heavy traffic. You see them as a liability when really, they're an asset.

Are you suggesting we treat drivers as second class citizens? Because they're not.

[Renovator2559]

No that's your car centric belief. Pedestrian bridges serve mainly car drivers and force all pedestrians to go up, the elderly and bicyclists don't appreciate this and in being confined to pedestrian bridges spread out over more than half mile crossing intervals.

The belief that pedestrian bridges are treating pedestrians as first class citizens in an urban environment is yet again an out of touch belief.

Pedestrian bridges have not worked for decades and now several are being removed in favor of slowing down high speed traffic and that's perfect in much more vibrant east Omaha.

[mrsticka]

I do NOT have a "car centric belief". But even if I did, I don't need some self-righteous know-it-all telling me how "out of touch" I am, giving me a bunch of grief and trying to make me feel guilty and/or ashamed of it.

[almighty_tuna]

Okay, let's take a break and get this thread back on track to the DT Omaha master plan.

[Dusty]

Out of curiosity, when was the last downtown master plan done? How often do they get revised?

[Garrett]

Out of curiosity, when was the last downtown master plan done? How often do they get revised?

The last one was 2009, and then before that was 1973. They’re basically as often as the city or some other agency wants to make them.

[Athomsfere]

Okay, let's take a break and get this thread back on track to the DT Omaha master plan.

I feel like I left the kids alone for 5 minutes and came back to poo on the walls, the kitchen on fire, and the baby sitter tied to a light post...

[GenX]

You could say the sky is blue and he’d have a long drawn out, senseless explanation of how you’re wrong.

[almighty_tuna]

You could say the sky is blue and he’d have a long drawn out, senseless explanation of how you’re wrong.

OI! Do I need to stop this car right now and put the thread in time out??

[Big E]

I miss this.

[Garrett]

Let’s get an urban vs suburban thread in, for old time’s sake

[Brad]

Let’s get an urban vs suburban thread in, for old time’s sake

We still have one:
https://www.eomahaforums.com/viewtopic. ... s+suburban

[Garrett]

Let’s get an urban vs suburban thread in, for old time’s sake

We still have one:
https://www.eomahaforums.com/viewtopic. ... s+suburban

Yeah but the fun part is getting to make a new one every few years

[Big E]

We still have one:
https://www.eomahaforums.com/viewtopic. ... s+suburban

Man, younger me used to give a |expletive|. Glad I don’t anymore.

[GenX]

You could say the sky is blue and he’d have a long drawn out, senseless explanation of how you’re wrong.

OI! Do I need to stop this car right now and put the thread in time out??

[Renovator2559]

The last one was 2009, and then before that was 1973. They’re basically as often as the city or some other agency wants to make them.

I don't know if anyone is familiar with the masterplan of 2009 and 1973 but what did each prioritize and how much have we changed until the most recent? Did these older masterplans solve the apparent issues the city was facing?

How much of the projects transpired and which projects never made it through?

Honestly I think Omaha has finally grasped on what should make Omaha vibrant based on the studies and reports referenced of the past in the current masterplan.

[Busguy2010]

Did these older masterplans solve the apparent issues the city was facing?

I'd moreover argue that the 1973 plan caused the problems the 2009 one was trying to fix. Master plans are pretty loose, and the city is dynamic. I like the direction Downtown is going, and as soon as the streetcar is up and running, I think anything in the 2009 master plan becomes irrelevant.

[PotatoeEatsFish]

So when we getting that Ferris wheel by Durham? Let’s just buy a rusty old one from a carnival and put it up for the heck of it.

Also I don’t have a car and live in the only walkable neighborhood in Omaha with a grocery store. I will be the decider on walkability and mass transit access issues on this forum.

[Garrett]

So when we getting that Ferris wheel by Durham? Let’s just buy a rusty old one from a carnival and put it up for the heck of it.

Also I don’t have a car and live in the only walkable neighborhood in Omaha with a grocery store. I will be the decider on walkability and mass transit access issues on this forum.

… what

[PotatoeEatsFish]

So when we getting that Ferris wheel by Durham? Let’s just buy a rusty old one from a carnival and put it up for the heck of it.

Also I don’t have a car and live in the only walkable neighborhood in Omaha with a grocery store. I will be the decider on walkability and mass transit access issues on this forum.

… what

The 2009 plan had a Ferris wheel by the Durham

[Garrett]

So when we getting that Ferris wheel by Durham? Let’s just buy a rusty old one from a carnival and put it up for the heck of it.

Also I don’t have a car and live in the only walkable neighborhood in Omaha with a grocery store. I will be the decider on walkability and mass transit access issues on this forum.

… what

The 2009 plan had a Ferris wheel by the Durham

No, the second part