Civic Square (former Civic Auditorium)

[MTO]

Are we really leaving it to this single project for the grocer? Why can’t it be a stand alone project or let other developments compete for it. We could be waiting years when we need as now.

[Doctor Fate]

Are we really leaving it to this single project for the grocer? Why can’t it be a stand alone project or let other developments compete for it. We could be waiting years when we need as now.

The mayor said yesterday in the press conference for The Duo that there were multiple upcoming developments vying for a grocery store but only one would get it. So the Civic site is one of the competitors.

[nebport5]

Are we really leaving it to this single project for the grocer? Why can’t it be a stand alone project or let other developments compete for it. We could be waiting years when we need as now.

The mayor said yesterday in the press conference for The Duo that there were multiple upcoming developments vying for a grocery store but only one would get it. So the Civic site is one of the competitors.

I call BS on this unless we're talking one large full service store. Personally, I'd rather have two smaller 10-15k stores and that seems realistic by the time the streetcar is running. Interesting to note the 2030 master plan mentions potential for 2 stores in the 30-40k size. Obviously that sounds unrealistic anytime by 2030. Right now, one would be a good start and gee maybe even more people would choose to live downtown.

I wonder what other potential site/s would be vying for a store beyond here and the Noddle development. Mercantile perhaps?

[NEDodger]

Personally I thought the Mercantile made sense too, but with grocery being a thin profit margin industry maybe the rent is too much? From elsewhere on the board, there is supposedly going to be something going in North Downtown. So the most likely contenders are the Civic Site and 16th and Burt-ish.

[Greg S]

We need one grocery store. I don’t see anyway to support two grocery stores, even smaller ones. KC’s downtown has for more residents and has one small but very good one. Cosentino’s. I am hoping for something similar here.

[Garrett]

Who AND when?

[JDJase]

Are we really leaving it to this single project for the grocer? Why can’t it be a stand alone project or let other developments compete for it. We could be waiting years when we need as now.

The mayor said yesterday in the press conference for The Duo that there were multiple upcoming developments vying for a grocery store but only one would get it. So the Civic site is one of the competitors.

I call BS on this unless we're talking one large full service store. Personally, I'd rather have two smaller 10-15k stores and that seems realistic by the time the streetcar is running. Interesting to note the 2030 master plan mentions potential for 2 stores in the 30-40k size. Obviously that sounds unrealistic anytime by 2030. Right now, one would be a good start and gee maybe even more people would choose to live downtown.

I wonder what other potential site/s would be vying for a store beyond here and the Noddle development. Mercantile perhaps?

It definitely needs to be one large full service store. A small store (or 2 small stores) with limited selection will fail (again). The point of getting a grocer downtown is to have a store that can fully serve the needs of downtown residents without having to go somewhere else. A small store that carries just the basics still requires residents to have to drive out to Hy-Vee or Bakers for everything else; and since they're going there anyway, they will just buy all of their basics there too (and most likely, cheaper).

This is exactly why Patrick's (about 9K sq ft) failed. I miss Patrick's because it was great to just walk a couple blocks when I needed a thing or two. But they just didn't carry enough to do all of my weekly shopping there, and that ended up not being a sustainable business model for them. So I just don't see another 10k store (or two) being any more successful. The "small" Cosentinos in downtown KC that Greg mentioned is still 33k sq ft.

[GenX]

How big is Cubby’s? They seem to have a decent selection of items, a meat counter, and they’re successful.

[jjjjhskr]

How big is Cubby’s? They seem to have a decent selection of items, a meat counter, and they’re successful.

And ridiculously expensive

[nebport5]

How big is Cubby’s? They seem to have a decent selection of items, a meat counter, and they’re successful.

8712 S.F. for the building thought all of that space isn't particularly laid out for grocery. Cubby's is a gas station plus store.

[nebport5]

Are we really leaving it to this single project for the grocer? Why can’t it be a stand alone project or let other developments compete for it. We could be waiting years when we need as now.

The mayor said yesterday in the press conference for The Duo that there were multiple upcoming developments vying for a grocery store but only one would get it. So the Civic site is one of the competitors.

I call BS on this unless we're talking one large full service store. Personally, I'd rather have two smaller 10-15k stores and that seems realistic by the time the streetcar is running. Interesting to note the 2030 master plan mentions potential for 2 stores in the 30-40k size. Obviously that sounds unrealistic anytime by 2030. Right now, one would be a good start and gee maybe even more people would choose to live downtown.

I wonder what other potential site/s would be vying for a store beyond here and the Noddle development. Mercantile perhaps?

It definitely needs to be one large full service store. A small store (or 2 small stores) with limited selection will fail (again). The point of getting a grocer downtown is to have a store that can fully serve the needs of downtown residents without having to go somewhere else. A small store that carries just the basics still requires residents to have to drive out to Hy-Vee or Bakers for everything else; and since they're going there anyway, they will just buy all of their basics there too (and most likely, cheaper).

This is exactly why Patrick's (about 9K sq ft) failed. I miss Patrick's because it was great to just walk a couple blocks when I needed a thing or two. But they just didn't carry enough to do all of my weekly shopping there, and that ended up not being a sustainable business model for them. So I just don't see another 10k store (or two) being any more successful. The "small" Cosentinos in downtown KC that Greg mentioned is still 33k sq ft.

I hear your point but I also think it depends upon the store. Two smaller national brands stores with dialed in product lines could actually complement one another. Patrick's had terrible hours which I think was a significant factor in their demise. They also seemed to be perpetually searching for what to carry beyond say what Cubby's typically stocks. If we are talking about one decent sized Hy-Vee store downtown I still think many people are driving to other stores. Consider how many on here reference Hy-Vee's high prices which leads me to believe even out west most aren't doing all their shopping there. In my mind the right two 10-15k stores would give me a greater variety of choices over one big store.

Love it or hate it I think a Trader Joe's would do very well downtown. That said, I don't know who beyond the poor college student(not particularly Creighton) can do all of their grocery shopping at a TJ's. Now compliment it with something like Natural Grocers and I'm less likely to drive out of downtown on a weekly basis. Personally I'd be happy with one decent sized Whole Foods but I realize I'm in the minority with that desire. I'm not personally familiar with Cosentino's but from what others on here have said that possibility is intriguing.

[GenX]

How big is Cubby’s? They seem to have a decent selection of items, a meat counter, and they’re successful.

And ridiculously expensive

Never claimed it was cheap, but somehow they’re making do.

[nebport5]

How big is Cubby’s? They seem to have a decent selection of items, a meat counter, and they’re successful.

And ridiculously expensive

Never claimed it was cheap, but somehow they’re making do.

Petrol is more profitable than groceries.

[Louie]

How big is Cubby’s? They seem to have a decent selection of items, a meat counter, and they’re successful.

And ridiculously expensive

Never claimed it was cheap, but somehow they’re making do.

Petrol is more profitable than groceries.

Is it? My understanding is that most gas stations make their money off the food and drink.

[NEDodger]

It's not. Gas stations end up making about three to seven cents a gallon off the gas.

https://fortune.com/2022/08/09/energy-p ... x-kinnier/

[nebport5]

Ok, I didn't realize that...poor assumption by me. So essentially selling gas is more of a loss getter to get you to buy everything else they sell at a higher margin. Nonetheless, the lack of gas stations in downtown likely helps Cubby's sales of corn nuts and fountain drinks.

Back on topic...the White Lotus grocery commitment...stating "we don't know who or when" could mean another 5-10 years.

[Doctor Fate]

Are we really leaving it to this single project for the grocer? Why can’t it be a stand alone project or let other developments compete for it. We could be waiting years when we need as now.

The mayor said yesterday in the press conference for The Duo that there were multiple upcoming developments vying for a grocery store but only one would get it. So the Civic site is one of the competitors.

I call BS on this unless we're talking one large full service store. Personally, I'd rather have two smaller 10-15k stores and that seems realistic by the time the streetcar is running. Interesting to note the 2030 master plan mentions potential for 2 stores in the 30-40k size. Obviously that sounds unrealistic anytime by 2030. Right now, one would be a good start and gee maybe even more people would choose to live downtown.

I wonder what other potential site/s would be vying for a store beyond here and the Noddle development. Mercantile perhaps?

This will be a full service grocery store. Hopefully one gets announced by the end of the year, which I'm have a feeling it will. It sounds like there's $400 million in development that will be announced by the end of the year along the streetcar line, and if the Civic site doesn't get a grocer, I'm guessing it will be one of these.

[halgy]

I kind of hope that they don't put the grocery store at the Civic site. My main issue is that it's too far from the streetcar line and/or the population center. As such, it's a bit too far to walk, especially with heavy bags of groceries. A lot of lazy people (like me) will end up driving, even though it's only a few blocks. And if I'm already in the car, then I might as well drive somewhere else.

[nebport5]

I kind of hope that they don't put the grocery store at the Civic site. My main issue is that it's too far from the streetcar line and/or the population center. As such, it's a bit too far to walk, especially with heavy bags of groceries. A lot of lazy people (like me) will end up driving, even though it's only a few blocks. And if I'm already in the car, then I might as well drive somewhere else.

Maybe invest in a folding grocery cart with wheels.

[Dusty]

I kind of hope that they don't put the grocery store at the Civic site. My main issue is that it's too far from the streetcar line and/or the population center. As such, it's a bit too far to walk, especially with heavy bags of groceries. A lot of lazy people (like me) will end up driving, even though it's only a few blocks. And if I'm already in the car, then I might as well drive somewhere else.

Maybe invest in a folding grocery cart with wheels.

Sounds cumbersome on a streetcar. Maybe just load up a stroller with groceries. You could roll right on the streetcar with no problem.

[Renovator2559]

I kind of hope that they don't put the grocery store at the Civic site. My main issue is that it's too far from the streetcar line and/or the population center. As such, it's a bit too far to walk, especially with heavy bags of groceries. A lot of lazy people (like me) will end up driving, even though it's only a few blocks. And if I'm already in the car, then I might as well drive somewhere else.

It doesn't matter if you choose to drive, at least you will generate less traffic going east or west and only generate much more localized traffic. Also, the most important people that are in need of a grocery store, are Creighton students; its a food desert in that area.

For me, walking 2 blocks north of the street car is nothing, lets remember this is not suburbia giant blocks.

Also, once the streetcar is extended to Council Bluffs, the streetcar will pass right next to Hy-Vee in the liquor store entrance at Broadway, so people can take that route if they need easy access.

Also as Dusty has said, you can buy a stroller or fold able 4 wheel wagon like this one:

[nebport5]

I kind of hope that they don't put the grocery store at the Civic site. My main issue is that it's too far from the streetcar line and/or the population center. As such, it's a bit too far to walk, especially with heavy bags of groceries. A lot of lazy people (like me) will end up driving, even though it's only a few blocks. And if I'm already in the car, then I might as well drive somewhere else.

Maybe invest in a folding grocery cart with wheels.

Sounds cumbersome on a streetcar. Maybe just load up a stroller with groceries. You could roll right on the streetcar with no problem.

Most folding grocery carts take up less space than a stroller.

[Bob from Omaha]

Sometimes it helps to get out of Omaha and see what others do. I live in a suburb of Detroit, Southfield. I also lived in Oak Park for a while. Anyway, in my travels all over the metro I initially was amazed at the number of people who bike here. Even in the winter in the snow. It's called the Motor City but boy do people bike. Bike lanes are all over, downtown and in the suburbs. In addition, a lot of people walk to the grocery store. Some have the baskets with two wheels and others just carry. My experience in Omaha was that almost everyone drove to the grocery store. I'm not sure why either happens but the difference is striking.

[mcarch]

What I find funny is we can build a 9-story building in the Blackstone area (Midtown), but we shy away from anything like that in our downtown area.

[OmahaOmaha]

I talked to the mayor over the weekend and she said there is a new proposal for this site from an Atlanta-based developer. Twin residential towers, both 25 stories, and a new to market 18 floor hotel. 1200+ car parking garage. Lower level retail with full size grocery store and one two story national big box retailer. Details will be released next week.

[Coyote]

I talked to the mayor over the weekend and she said there is a new proposal for this site from an Atlanta-based developer. Twin residential towers, both 25 stories, and a new to market 18 floor hotel. 1200+ car parking garage. Lower level retail with full size grocery store and one two story national big box retailer. Details will be released next week.

Did she say when this proposal will be released? Did she give any details? I will look forward to anything happening to the Civic Square site!

[halgy]

I talked to the mayor over the weekend and she said there is a new proposal for this site from an Atlanta-based developer. Twin residential towers, both 25 stories, and a new to market 18 floor hotel. 1200+ car parking garage. Lower level retail with full size grocery store and one two story national big box retailer. Details will be released next week.

I'm highly suspect of any good news that is released today...

[ZachJo]

Well if it’s true exciting news! But I have a feeling this is a big April fools joke

[Doctor Fate]

I talked to the mayor over the weekend and she said there is a new proposal for this site from an Atlanta-based developer. Twin residential towers, both 25 stories, and a new to market 18 floor hotel. 1200+ car parking garage. Lower level retail with full size grocery store and one two story national big box retailer. Details will be released next week.

Did she say when this proposal will be released? Did she give any details? I will look forward to anything happening to the Civic Square site!

This is an April Fools comment for sure.

[OmahaOmaha]

It was an April Fools joke. Sorry if I gave any of you a skyscraper chubby. Easy come, easy go. Lol.

[nebugeater]

I talked to the mayor over the weekend and she said there is a new proposal for this site from an Atlanta-based developer. Twin residential towers, both 25 stories, and a new to market 18 floor hotel. 1200+ car parking garage. Lower level retail with full size grocery store and one two story national big box retailer. Details will be released next week.

Did she say when this proposal will be released? Did she give any details? I will look forward to anything happening to the Civic Square site!

I heard the details will be released one year from today. April 1, 2025

[Athomsfere]

I talked to the mayor over the weekend and she said there is a new proposal for this site from an Atlanta-based developer. Twin residential towers, both 25 stories, and a new to market 18 floor hotel. 1200+ car parking garage. Lower level retail with full size grocery store and one two story national big box retailer. Details will be released next week.

I'm highly suspect of any good news that is released today...

Yeah. Especially about faces on what we have renderings for that sound that good.

[BRoss]

This was supposed to begin early this year, but nothing moving yet. KETV had a story about multiple developers looking into bringing a grocery store downtown. Posted more about it here - https://eomahaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=399181#p399181

[CBJason]

When I was on 480 today exiting on 14th, I saw the lone trailer on the lot advertising the Lotus development. So sad looking….

[Toto]

Time to $hit or get off the pot! How soon can the city fire White Lotus?

[windsor]

Time to $hit or get off the pot! How soon can the city fire White Lotus?

I agree, they have been a disaster!

[Garrett]

Didn’t the latest contract include some sort of start clause?

[nebport5]

Summer of '25.

From this same thread in Jan. of this year...

viewtopic.php?p=387697#p387697

[almighty_tuna]

Right to Repurchase. Buyer shall Commence Construction (as defined below), as set forth in the amended Redevelopment Plan, within two years of Closing. Buyer understands and agrees that it will make its best efforts to complete installation of a minimum of fifty percent (50%) of the public infrastructure within eighteen (18) months of Closing. “Commence Construction” shall mean the commencement of the construction of the footings, foundations and/or road work for a minimum of fifty percent of the total proposed infrastructure and building structures or fifty percent of the proposed building structures.. Buyer acknowledges and understands that any application for tax increment financing must be submitted to the City and approved by the Omaha City Council prior to the Commence Construction requirement can be fulfilled. If Buyer fails to satisfy this requirement and upon notice to the Buyer and sixty (60) days to cure, the City shall have the option to repurchase the Property for the Purchase Price. A memorandum of this right to repurchase shall be recorded against the Property at Closing.

I said it before and will again; I don't see this project happening.

[Toto]

Right to Repurchase. Buyer shall Commence Construction (as defined below), as set forth in the amended Redevelopment Plan, within two years of Closing. Buyer understands and agrees that it will make its best efforts to complete installation of a minimum of fifty percent (50%) of the public infrastructure within eighteen (18) months of Closing. “Commence Construction” shall mean the commencement of the construction of the footings, foundations and/or road work for a minimum of fifty percent of the total proposed infrastructure and building structures or fifty percent of the proposed building structures.. Buyer acknowledges and understands that any application for tax increment financing must be submitted to the City and approved by the Omaha City Council prior to the Commence Construction requirement can be fulfilled. If Buyer fails to satisfy this requirement and upon notice to the Buyer and sixty (60) days to cure, the City shall have the option to repurchase the Property for the Purchase Price. A memorandum of this right to repurchase shall be recorded against the Property at Closing.

I said it before and will again; I don't see this project happening.

Oh heck no! We have another year of this dog and pony show? Correct Tuna, never gonna happen.