Passenger rail between Omaha and Lincoln

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damonhynes
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Re: Passenger rail between Omaha and Lincoln

Post by damonhynes »

ricko wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 2:49 pm How much influence do the commercial railroads have over the use of existing rail lines between Omaha and Lincoln? Realistically, I could see something like the single car inter-urban type rail service that was pretty much nationwide in the early 20th century, using the existing infrastructure, with advanced on-line sales to avoid overcrowding.
Plain and simple: BNSF owns the line between OMA-LNK.
Not-so-plain and simple: Warren Buffett owns BNSF. He may be a capitalist but he's also a progressive, so bedrock economic logic doesn't apply in this case.

But everyone has a price, especially when government money is involved.
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Re: Passenger rail between Omaha and Lincoln

Post by NEDodger »

damonhynes wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 2:57 pm
ricko wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 2:49 pm How much influence do the commercial railroads have over the use of existing rail lines between Omaha and Lincoln? Realistically, I could see something like the single car inter-urban type rail service that was pretty much nationwide in the early 20th century, using the existing infrastructure, with advanced on-line sales to avoid overcrowding.
Plain and simple: BNSF owns the line between OMA-LNK.
Not-so-plain and simple: Warren Buffett owns BNSF. He may be a capitalist but he's also a progressive, so bedrock economic logic doesn't apply in this case.

But everyone has a price, especially when government money is involved.
Warren is steadfastly against the streetcar. He’s not budging for commuter rail.
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Re: Passenger rail between Omaha and Lincoln

Post by ricko »

I don’t claim to know anything about this stuff, but if BNSF allows Amtrak to operate on its lines, why wouldn’t they allow an Interurban line? Otherwise, this whole argument about passenger rail between the 2 cities seems to be a pointless waste of time.
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Garrett
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Re: Passenger rail between Omaha and Lincoln

Post by Garrett »

ricko wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 4:31 pm I don’t claim to know anything about this stuff, but if BNSF allows Amtrak to operate on its lines, why wouldn’t they allow an Interurban line? Otherwise, this whole argument about passenger rail between the 2 cities seems to be a pointless waste of time.
BNSF barely allows Amtrak to run on the line, basically. A once per day train that crosses Nebraska in the middle of the night isn’t a huge obstruction for what is one of the busiest freight corridors in the country. If an Omaha-Lincoln passenger service were to be built there would probably need to be some pretty substantial upgrades to the corridor.
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Re: Passenger rail between Omaha and Lincoln

Post by Bomaha »

Garrett wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 4:54 pm
ricko wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 4:31 pm I don’t claim to know anything about this stuff, but if BNSF allows Amtrak to operate on its lines, why wouldn’t they allow an Interurban line? Otherwise, this whole argument about passenger rail between the 2 cities seems to be a pointless waste of time.
BNSF barely allows Amtrak to run on the line, basically. A once per day train that crosses Nebraska in the middle of the night isn’t a huge obstruction for what is one of the busiest freight corridors in the country. If an Omaha-Lincoln passenger service were to be built there would probably need to be some pretty substantial upgrades to the corridor.
Correct, hence why creating some type of regional rail commission or something to study and phase plan upgrades to get to a point where you could support more passenger rail service long-term. I understand it's an extremely busy corridor, but it still can be done.
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Re: Passenger rail between Omaha and Lincoln

Post by Garrett »

Bomaha wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 9:46 pm
Garrett wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 4:54 pm
ricko wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 4:31 pm I don’t claim to know anything about this stuff, but if BNSF allows Amtrak to operate on its lines, why wouldn’t they allow an Interurban line? Otherwise, this whole argument about passenger rail between the 2 cities seems to be a pointless waste of time.
BNSF barely allows Amtrak to run on the line, basically. A once per day train that crosses Nebraska in the middle of the night isn’t a huge obstruction for what is one of the busiest freight corridors in the country. If an Omaha-Lincoln passenger service were to be built there would probably need to be some pretty substantial upgrades to the corridor.
Correct, hence why creating some type of regional rail commission or something to study and phase plan upgrades to get to a point where you could support more passenger rail service long-term. I understand it's an extremely busy corridor, but it still can be done.
Right, it’s definitely possible, but expensive for a state that’s never shown much love for transit on a policy standpoint
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Re: Passenger rail between Omaha and Lincoln

Post by FishFighter92 »

ricko wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 4:31 pm I don’t claim to know anything about this stuff, but if BNSF allows Amtrak to operate on its lines, why wouldn’t they allow an Interurban line? Otherwise, this whole argument about passenger rail between the 2 cities seems to be a pointless waste of time.
It is a waste of time, but what else are you going to do all day? Now a bus between the two...much more likely.
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Re: Passenger rail between Omaha and Lincoln

Post by Mapguy »

The lowest hanging fruit here is to have NE fund 2 extra cars that go to DEN through an Amtrak partnership that adds 2 departures and arrivals with better times for Omaha and Lincoln. MN is doing this with 2 trains that go from St Paul to Chicago on the existing Amtrak Route.

With 3 daily trains to Denver I could see ridership double or tripple as people can book early mid day or late arrivals and departures.

I dont think this will happen because NE is kinda cheap---but it would actually be kinda great for central and western NE not just Omaha or Lincoln as they could use the trains as well at the existing Amtrak stops to go in either direction. In a way this would be a bigger win for Central NE than Eastern if it happened at all
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Re: Passenger rail between Omaha and Lincoln

Post by nebugeater »

Mapguy wrote: Thu May 09, 2024 12:19 am The lowest hanging fruit here is to have NE fund 2 extra cars that go to DEN through an Amtrak partnership that adds 2 departures and arrivals with better times for Omaha and Lincoln. MN is doing this with 2 trains that go from St Paul to Chicago on the existing Amtrak Route.

With 3 daily trains to Denver I could see ridership double or tripple as people can book early mid day or late arrivals and departures.

I dont think this will happen because NE is kinda cheap---but it would actually be kinda great for central and western NE not just Omaha or Lincoln as they could use the trains as well at the existing Amtrak stops to go in either direction. In a way this would be a bigger win for Central NE than Eastern if it happened at all
I guess I am too lazy to look it up. What are the reg stops by Amtrak in central and western Nebr?
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Re: Passenger rail between Omaha and Lincoln

Post by halgy »

nebugeater wrote: Thu May 09, 2024 5:56 am
Mapguy wrote: Thu May 09, 2024 12:19 am The lowest hanging fruit here is to have NE fund 2 extra cars that go to DEN through an Amtrak partnership that adds 2 departures and arrivals with better times for Omaha and Lincoln. MN is doing this with 2 trains that go from St Paul to Chicago on the existing Amtrak Route.

With 3 daily trains to Denver I could see ridership double or tripple as people can book early mid day or late arrivals and departures.

I dont think this will happen because NE is kinda cheap---but it would actually be kinda great for central and western NE not just Omaha or Lincoln as they could use the trains as well at the existing Amtrak stops to go in either direction. In a way this would be a bigger win for Central NE than Eastern if it happened at all
I guess I am too lazy to look it up. What are the reg stops by Amtrak in central and western Nebr?
The Nebraska stations are: Omaha, Lincoln, Hastings, Holdrege, & McCook.
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Re: Passenger rail between Omaha and Lincoln

Post by FishFighter92 »

halgy wrote: Thu May 09, 2024 7:21 am
nebugeater wrote: Thu May 09, 2024 5:56 am I guess I am too lazy to look it up. What are the reg stops by Amtrak in central and western Nebr?
The Nebraska stations are: Omaha, Lincoln, Hastings, Holdrege, & McCook.
Omaha : 11:25pm
Lincoln : 12:46am
Hastings : 2:22am
Holdrege : 3:11am
McCook : 4:22am
Fort Morgan : 5:46am
Denver arrival : 7:56am

Give me a morning departure from Omaha and I'll use it at least once a year.
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Re: Passenger rail between Omaha and Lincoln

Post by nebugeater »

halgy wrote: Thu May 09, 2024 7:21 am
nebugeater wrote: Thu May 09, 2024 5:56 am
Mapguy wrote: Thu May 09, 2024 12:19 am The lowest hanging fruit here is to have NE fund 2 extra cars that go to DEN through an Amtrak partnership that adds 2 departures and arrivals with better times for Omaha and Lincoln. MN is doing this with 2 trains that go from St Paul to Chicago on the existing Amtrak Route.

With 3 daily trains to Denver I could see ridership double or tripple as people can book early mid day or late arrivals and departures.

I dont think this will happen because NE is kinda cheap---but it would actually be kinda great for central and western NE not just Omaha or Lincoln as they could use the trains as well at the existing Amtrak stops to go in either direction. In a way this would be a bigger win for Central NE than Eastern if it happened at all
I guess I am too lazy to look it up. What are the reg stops by Amtrak in central and western Nebr?
The Nebraska stations are: Omaha, Lincoln, Hastings, Holdrege, & McCook.
thanks
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Re: Passenger rail between Omaha and Lincoln

Post by PotatoeEatsFish »

NEDodger wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 4:16 pm
damonhynes wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 2:57 pm
ricko wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 2:49 pm How much influence do the commercial railroads have over the use of existing rail lines between Omaha and Lincoln? Realistically, I could see something like the single car inter-urban type rail service that was pretty much nationwide in the early 20th century, using the existing infrastructure, with advanced on-line sales to avoid overcrowding.
Plain and simple: BNSF owns the line between OMA-LNK.
Not-so-plain and simple: Warren Buffett owns BNSF. He may be a capitalist but he's also a progressive, so bedrock economic logic doesn't apply in this case.

But everyone has a price, especially when government money is involved.
Warren is steadfastly against the streetcar. He’s not budging for commuter rail.
I have yet to see his vast investments in this city that he loves so much. Seems like his daughter is the only one who cares about anything local. I doubt Warren will live much longer and we all know his money is going to be donated to some international charity instead of anything in Omaha. Worthless little man who saved all his money just to make nothing of his life besides have business men fly out to him once a year and all circle jerk eachother in an arena while moaning “stonks! Ahhh”.
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Re: Passenger rail between Omaha and Lincoln

Post by Alliatrus »

I think the one thing failed to mention in all of this discussion of rails and commuter vs interstate, etc is the concept of induced demand.
We will continuously spend millions if not billions of dollars expanding highways to "alleviate traffic" and consequently pay more annually of maintaining that road infrastructure.
Everyone talks about how "we don't have the demand for a commuter rail." Yeah, well if you take five minutes to figure out why there is no demand for a virtually absent resource from most of America you can see how that argument is fundamentally flawed. We have been gaslit for years by the oil and automotive industry into believing that there is no other option besides cars.
Those that argue that "it's only an hour drive" clearly have never done some serious driving. I have driven from Florida to Arkansas to Nebraska back to Maryland to Florida. I have driven from California to Nebraska and it's miserable. The whole "road trip" experience is awful. You have limited dining options, gas stations aren't well maintained by any means on the outskirts of cities. Driving isn't freeing, it's like being in a rolling tomb. I'd rather spend an equal amount of time lounging in an area I can get up and stretch my legs than having to make sure the other drivers aren't going to kill me.
If you build a rail right then people will come. Driving to Lincoln is a miserable, boring experience because you're driving directly into the sun during peak off work hours, it's unsafe and you could be more productive or restful in a commuter vehicle.
Everyone talks about budgets yet no one talks about the human experience when it comes to these things which is what public transit is fundamentally about. Our built environment shapes how we view the world and I can't say the dozens of ruined Nebraska parking lots are the epitome of pleasant or hopeful.
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Re: Passenger rail between Omaha and Lincoln

Post by Garrett »

Alliatrus wrote: Thu May 23, 2024 1:02 pm I think the one thing failed to mention in all of this discussion of rails and commuter vs interstate, etc is the concept of induced demand.
We will continuously spend millions if not billions of dollars expanding highways to "alleviate traffic" and consequently pay more annually of maintaining that road infrastructure.
Everyone talks about how "we don't have the demand for a commuter rail." Yeah, well if you take five minutes to figure out why there is no demand for a virtually absent resource from most of America you can see how that argument is fundamentally flawed. We have been gaslit for years by the oil and automotive industry into believing that there is no other option besides cars.
Those that argue that "it's only an hour drive" clearly have never done some serious driving. I have driven from Florida to Arkansas to Nebraska back to Maryland to Florida. I have driven from California to Nebraska and it's miserable. The whole "road trip" experience is awful. You have limited dining options, gas stations aren't well maintained by any means on the outskirts of cities. Driving isn't freeing, it's like being in a rolling tomb. I'd rather spend an equal amount of time lounging in an area I can get up and stretch my legs than having to make sure the other drivers aren't going to kill me.
If you build a rail right then people will come. Driving to Lincoln is a miserable, boring experience because you're driving directly into the sun during peak off work hours, it's unsafe and you could be more productive or restful in a commuter vehicle.
Everyone talks about budgets yet no one talks about the human experience when it comes to these things which is what public transit is fundamentally about. Our built environment shapes how we view the world and I can't say the dozens of ruined Nebraska parking lots are the epitome of pleasant or hopeful.
I think even branding it not as commuter rail but rather regional rail is an important distinction. This wouldn't just be for workers, it would be for students, people going to Nebraska or Creighton games, or even just people wanting to spend some time in the other respective city. It should be an all day service for all sorts of different reasons, not just a couple trains per day.
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Re: Passenger rail between Omaha and Lincoln

Post by Renovator2559 »

Alliatrus wrote: Thu May 23, 2024 1:02 pm Driving isn't freeing, it's like being in a rolling tomb. I'd rather spend an equal amount of time lounging in an area I can get up and stretch my legs than having to make sure the other drivers aren't going to kill me.
If you build a rail right then people will come. Driving to Lincoln is a miserable, boring experience because you're driving directly into the sun during peak off work hours, it's unsafe and you could be more productive or restful in a commuter vehicle.
Everyone talks about budgets yet no one talks about the human experience when it comes to these things which is what public transit is fundamentally about. Our built environment shapes how we view the world and I can't say the dozens of ruined Nebraska parking lots are the epitome of pleasant or hopeful.
Good points, I consider driving free labor too. Nothing like kicking back, having a chat, read a book as you are worry free of crashes.
While there are applications of the use of the car, if the commuter rail was installed between Omaha and Lincoln. I would jump on the commuter rail and visit Lincoln more frequently, as Lincoln as a city is doing good moves in making their downtown vibrant.
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Re: Passenger rail between Omaha and Lincoln

Post by Louie »

Lot of good points here.
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Re: Passenger rail between Omaha and Lincoln

Post by meliketrains »

PotatoeEatsFish wrote: Fri May 17, 2024 12:02 pm
NEDodger wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 4:16 pm
damonhynes wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 2:57 pm
ricko wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 2:49 pm How much influence do the commercial railroads have over the use of existing rail lines between Omaha and Lincoln? Realistically, I could see something like the single car inter-urban type rail service that was pretty much nationwide in the early 20th century, using the existing infrastructure, with advanced on-line sales to avoid overcrowding.
Plain and simple: BNSF owns the line between OMA-LNK.
Not-so-plain and simple: Warren Buffett owns BNSF. He may be a capitalist but he's also a progressive, so bedrock economic logic doesn't apply in this case.

But everyone has a price, especially when government money is involved.
Warren is steadfastly against the streetcar. He’s not budging for commuter rail.
I have yet to see his vast investments in this city that he loves so much. Seems like his daughter is the only one who cares about anything local. I doubt Warren will live much longer and we all know his money is going to be donated to some international charity instead of anything in Omaha. Worthless little man who saved all his money just to make nothing of his life besides have business men fly out to him once a year and all circle jerk eachother in an arena while moaning “stonks! Ahhh”.
Pretty hilarious and true. I don't hate Buffett like many seem to, but I'm also extremely skeptical of anything he has to say about this city. It seems he has an outdated view of how cities, and maybe specifically Omaha, have to exist. Granted, the guy grew up during a massive shift away from public infrastructure, and it's possible he's nostalgic for car-centric cities. Or, maybe it's the lead poisoning, who knows?
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Re: Passenger rail between Omaha and Lincoln

Post by Busguy2010 »

meliketrains wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2024 9:36 am
PotatoeEatsFish wrote: Fri May 17, 2024 12:02 pm
NEDodger wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 4:16 pm
damonhynes wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 2:57 pm
ricko wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 2:49 pm How much influence do the commercial railroads have over the use of existing rail lines between Omaha and Lincoln? Realistically, I could see something like the single car inter-urban type rail service that was pretty much nationwide in the early 20th century, using the existing infrastructure, with advanced on-line sales to avoid overcrowding.
Plain and simple: BNSF owns the line between OMA-LNK.
Not-so-plain and simple: Warren Buffett owns BNSF. He may be a capitalist but he's also a progressive, so bedrock economic logic doesn't apply in this case.

But everyone has a price, especially when government money is involved.
Warren is steadfastly against the streetcar. He’s not budging for commuter rail.
I have yet to see his vast investments in this city that he loves so much. Seems like his daughter is the only one who cares about anything local. I doubt Warren will live much longer and we all know his money is going to be donated to some international charity instead of anything in Omaha. Worthless little man who saved all his money just to make nothing of his life besides have business men fly out to him once a year and all circle jerk eachother in an arena while moaning “stonks! Ahhh”.
Pretty hilarious and true. I don't hate Buffett like many seem to, but I'm also extremely skeptical of anything he has to say about this city. It seems he has an outdated view of how cities, and maybe specifically Omaha, have to exist. Granted, the guy grew up during a massive shift away from public infrastructure, and it's possible he's nostalgic for car-centric cities. Or, maybe it's the lead poisoning, who knows?
Even if it seems he doesn't want to invest in the city itself, I was curious how his wealth could be spread, so I did the math. If he simply gave every resident of Omaha an equal portion of his wealth, everybody would get a $265,000 bonus. Don't know if that would help the city itself (a lot of people would up and leave, I'm sure) but it's crazy to think, that's immediate life changing money for 485,000 people!
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Re: Passenger rail between Omaha and Lincoln

Post by meliketrains »

Busguy2010 wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2024 10:30 am
meliketrains wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2024 9:36 am
PotatoeEatsFish wrote: Fri May 17, 2024 12:02 pm
NEDodger wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 4:16 pm
damonhynes wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 2:57 pm
ricko wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 2:49 pm How much influence do the commercial railroads have over the use of existing rail lines between Omaha and Lincoln? Realistically, I could see something like the single car inter-urban type rail service that was pretty much nationwide in the early 20th century, using the existing infrastructure, with advanced on-line sales to avoid overcrowding.
Plain and simple: BNSF owns the line between OMA-LNK.
Not-so-plain and simple: Warren Buffett owns BNSF. He may be a capitalist but he's also a progressive, so bedrock economic logic doesn't apply in this case.

But everyone has a price, especially when government money is involved.
Warren is steadfastly against the streetcar. He’s not budging for commuter rail.
I have yet to see his vast investments in this city that he loves so much. Seems like his daughter is the only one who cares about anything local. I doubt Warren will live much longer and we all know his money is going to be donated to some international charity instead of anything in Omaha. Worthless little man who saved all his money just to make nothing of his life besides have business men fly out to him once a year and all circle jerk eachother in an arena while moaning “stonks! Ahhh”.
Pretty hilarious and true. I don't hate Buffett like many seem to, but I'm also extremely skeptical of anything he has to say about this city. It seems he has an outdated view of how cities, and maybe specifically Omaha, have to exist. Granted, the guy grew up during a massive shift away from public infrastructure, and it's possible he's nostalgic for car-centric cities. Or, maybe it's the lead poisoning, who knows?
Even if it seems he doesn't want to invest in the city itself, I was curious how his wealth could be spread, so I did the math. If he simply gave every resident of Omaha an equal portion of his wealth, everybody would get a $265,000 bonus. Don't know if that would help the city itself (a lot of people would up and leave, I'm sure) but it's crazy to think, that's immediate life changing money for 485,000 people!
I mean, sure, if you liquidated his assets. I'd really just love to see some portion, even if it's small, if his personal wealth go towards actually developing the city. The problem is he'd probably earmark the money for some nonsense like a hamburger joint with maximum setbacks and parking. The guy loves his 90s urban blight vibe.
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Re: Passenger rail between Omaha and Lincoln

Post by Bob from Omaha »

Two things about Buffett.

In a biography he's portrayed as being pretty greedy. The author thinks since Buffett has a fear of dying his thought is that if he keeps all his money he won't die. Since that book Buffett has begun to give it away. As far as donating to Omaha itself, he has occasionally pried open his wallet. He bought 1/4 of the Omaha Royals for whatever that's worth. He also made a relatively small donation to the Rose Theater when it was announced. Some others but none very spashy.

On the other hand, many of those he made millionaires and billionaires have donated a lot. The zoo, Joslyn, other arts organizations, and on and on. I know it's not Buffett but it's a lot of money. And yes, his daughter does a lot.

Could he have done and do more? Of course. The fact is that it's his money. It's not a crime that he's so greedy or chose to let Bill Gates play with it. I suppose you could call the way he's giving it away without much to Omaha wrong but it isn't a crime. Making the planet wait til he dies when he could have done a lot for the planet along the way and still built a huge fortune is unfortunate. But as I said, it's his money and he dances to a different tune than most.
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Re: Passenger rail between Omaha and Lincoln

Post by nativeomahan »

Bob from Omaha wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2024 12:13 pm Two things about Buffett.

In a biography he's portrayed as being pretty greedy. The author thinks since Buffett has a fear of dying his thought is that if he keeps all his money he won't die. Since that book Buffett has begun to give it away. As far as donating to Omaha itself, he has occasionally pried open his wallet. He bought 1/4 of the Omaha Royals for whatever that's worth. He also made a relatively small donation to the Rose Theater when it was announced. Some others but none very spashy.

On the other hand, many of those he made millionaires and billionaires have donated a lot. The zoo, Joslyn, other arts organizations, and on and on. I know it's not Buffett but it's a lot of money. And yes, his daughter does a lot.

Could he have done and do more? Of course. The fact is that it's his money. It's not a crime that he's so greedy or chose to let Bill Gates play with it. I suppose you could call the way he's giving it away without much to Omaha wrong but it isn't a crime. Making the planet wait til he dies when he could have done a lot for the planet along the way and still built a huge fortune is unfortunate. But as I said, it's his money and he dances to a different tune than most.
I totally agree.
It’s his money. He started from nothing and through his business acumen became over time one of the financially wealthiest humans to walk the planet. Along the way he created many millionaires, as well as a billionaire or two. His daughter has used a good chunk of her inherited wealth to support the arts and other civic causes here in Omaha. As has been noted Warren has publicly contributed to civic betterment causes here and there. We have no idea what local causes he may have anonymously assisted.
Like probably every super wealthy person, he has significant quirks. His are well known. He still lives in the same house he purchased 60 or so years ago (he has other homes as well). He eats crappy food at places way down the culinary food chain. It makes him happy and honestly I like his style a lot better than people who strove to get on “Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous.” He has his “causes” and plans to plow most of his wealth into supporting those causes. While I wish he had sunk a few billion dollars into the city he has called “home” for 90+ years, he has developed his own set of priorities. When I travel and people learn I am from Omaha his name invariably is tossed out: “Oh, that’s where Warren Buffet lives! Do you know him?” That’s kind of cool.
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Re: Passenger rail between Omaha and Lincoln

Post by jjjjhskr »

Suzie has been very generous in support of Omaha and I expect that will increase when the inheritance is given to his children’s foundations. She has definitely made Omaha a better place with her generosity.
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Re: Passenger rail between Omaha and Lincoln

Post by ita »

jjjjhskr wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2024 9:11 am Suzie has been very generous in support of Omaha and I expect that will increase when the inheritance is given to his children’s foundations. She has definitely made Omaha a better place with her generosity.
For sure. She is involved with both the Susan Thompson Buffett Foundation, which provides scholarships for Nebraska kids to attend public colleges, and the Sherwood Foundation, that provides grants to all sorts of projects lead by non-profits. I would suspect the later give to Heritage Foundation that's been funding all the civic and cultural amenities the City has been getting, but can't find anything definitive.
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Re: Passenger rail between Omaha and Lincoln

Post by Dusty »

Want to play a fun game of would you rather?

If we had one shot at getting passenger rail connecting Omaha to Lincoln what option would you choose...

A. Commuter/Regional Rail- This would connect the smaller cities in the path (Gretna, Ashland, Waverly, Etc)
B. High speed rail (like Brightline)- Non stop Omaha to Lincoln.

There are pros and cons to both.
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Re: Passenger rail between Omaha and Lincoln

Post by Garrett »

Dusty wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2025 8:41 pm Want to play a fun game of would you rather?

If we had one shot at getting passenger rail connecting Omaha to Lincoln what option would you choose...

A. Commuter/Regional Rail- This would connect the smaller cities in the path (Gretna, Ashland, Waverly, Etc)
B. High speed rail (like Brightline)- Non stop Omaha to Lincoln.

There are pros and cons to both.
In an ideal scenario for its development, regional rail. Develop these towns into tight knit, transit oriented small towns like you see on New York's Metro North Railroad.
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Re: Passenger rail between Omaha and Lincoln

Post by halgy »

Regional rail for sure. In addition to what Garrett said, if ridership was high enough there's always the possibility of adding an express service, either regularly or for special events. The reverse (adding local stops to high-speed rail) would be much less possible.

That is, unless the high speed rail was part of a larger network, such as from Chicago to Denver (and beyond), or to Kansas City. I'd still probably opt for regional rail, but it'd be a tougher decision.
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Re: Passenger rail between Omaha and Lincoln

Post by Louie »

halgy wrote: Thu Jan 09, 2025 7:30 am Regional rail for sure. In addition to what Garrett said, if ridership was high enough there's always the possibility of adding an express service, either regularly or for special events. The reverse (adding local stops to high-speed rail) would be much less possible.

That is, unless the high speed rail was part of a larger network, such as from Chicago to Denver (and beyond), or to Kansas City. I'd still probably opt for regional rail, but it'd be a tougher decision.
Good points, I hadn't even considered how it would fit in a larger picture. High speed rail feels like its getting more traction than regional currently, so I think I'd prefer piggybacking on a larger network there.
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Re: Passenger rail between Omaha and Lincoln

Post by Garrett »

Sen Dan Quick of Grand Island has introduced LB256 to have Nebraska rejoin the Midwest Interstate Passenger Rail Compact.

https://nebraskalegislature.gov/bills/v ... ntID=58863
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Re: Passenger rail between Omaha and Lincoln

Post by Renovator2559 »

The Santa Fe and Albuquerque city pair and its state population of 2 million, mirrors the Lincoln and Omaha city pair in Nebraska a state with 2 million as well, with similar agricultural backgrounds; so if a commuter rail project is to be considered, NM is the state that we are probably looking more into, in how their commuter rail line project is doing; so that we can avert any potential problems.

As much as I like the idea of commuter rail between Lincoln and Omaha. There are many inherent challenges to overcome in order to make such a venture viable.

It appears that our opposite twin pair Santa Fe and Albuquerque has had mixed success with their rail line.

It appears that people in those cities are opting to drive, instead of using the commuter rail. Since they prefer the 1 hour drive vs the 1 hour and 45 minutes on rail. The initial excitement people had, has waned and their i25 congestion doesn't appear to be alleviated.
The commuter line costed around $400 million, and it runs a deficit covered by state subsidies (about $20-30 million annually in operating costs versus maybe $3-5 million in fare revenue.

For a state like Nebraska that is fiscally responsible and a well run state that tops many charts, it wouldn't sit well with voters if Nebraska became a federal government dependent state. Unlike New Mexico, who is poor, highly dependent on the federal government, is one of the most uneducated states and is one of the most crime ridden states.

Yes, the Rail Runner Commuter Express rail has sprouted some cool developments and raised properly values and the Balloon Fiesta Festival is an annual event that has had good use of the Rail, but more people are opting to drive because commuter line is too slow.
The most common reasons given for not riding the train include inconvenient schedules and long travel times.

The report also states that the operational cost per passenger trip was $34 in 2017. Fares covered just 8 percent of that, with federal grants and gross receipts tax revenues making up the rest.
The report also highlights a $1 million station built south of downtown Albuquerque that was envisioned as a stop for special events at the University of New Mexico. It’s fenced off and hasn’t been used since 2011.
https://www.lcsun-news.com/story/news/l ... 576028002/

Here are the ridership values, so that you can see and determine how the rail has been:
(Maybe if these 2 NM city pairs did not fall for the covid plandemic, like Omaha and Lincoln did not as much; their numbers would not have dropped)

2006: ~300,000 (estimated). Service began mid-year with Phase I. Initial daily ridership averaged 4,000-4,500 during free periods, dropping to 1,000-2,500 after fares were introduced, suggesting a partial-year total around this range.
2007: ~750,000 (estimated). Daily ridership stabilized at 2,500 by summer, with full-year service from Belen to Bernalillo and partial expansion southward.
2008: ~900,000 (estimated). Phase II to Santa Fe opened in December. Daily averages rose to 4,500 by mid-2009, but 2008 reflects a mix of Phase I and early Phase II ridership.
2009: ~1,100,000 (estimated). Full year with Santa Fe extension; daily ridership hit 4,500 mid-year, trending upward.
2010: 1,240,000. This was the peak year, with 4,000 average weekday trips reported.
2011: ~1,200,000 (estimated). Ridership began declining post-peak, though still above 1 million based on trends.
2012: ~1,100,000 (estimated). Decline continued; cumulative 7.9 million riders reported by mid-2014 over 8 years suggests a steady drop from 2010.
2013: ~1,000,000 (estimated). Continued downward trend, aligning with later reports of annual decreases.
2014: ~900,000 (estimated). By June, 8 million total riders since 2006 were reported, averaging roughly this figure for the year.
2015: ~850,000 (estimated). Decline persisted, consistent with later annual drops of 5-6%.
2016: ~800,000 (estimated). Trend-based estimate, as ridership fell toward 2017 levels.
2017: 787,116. Exact figure from July 2016-June 2017 fiscal year data.
2018: ~740,000 (estimated). 6% drop from 2017 reported, aligning with fiscal year trends.
2019: <750,000. Reported as a low point, slightly below or near 2018 levels; daily trips averaged 2,200 by February.
2020: ~200,000 (estimated). Pandemic halted service from March 2020 to March 2021; limited pre-shutdown ridership (e.g., 584,400 in 2023 suggests a sharp drop in 2020).
2021: ~150,000 (estimated). Service resumed March 8 with reduced capacity (160 per train vs. 600), and ridership was 19% below 2021 reopening levels by 2022.
2022: ~400,000 (estimated). Partial recovery post-reopening, though still far below pre-pandemic levels; 13 million total riders by June suggest slow growth.
2023: 584,400. Exact annual ridership reported, with 2,800 weekday trips by Q3 2024.
2024: 773,900. Reported for the full year, with 2,300 weekday trips as of Q4 2024.

Based on the NM rail line between Santa Fe and Alburqueque, it appears that a similar commuter line between Omaha and Lincoln would carry the same success and burden. The commuter project would have to be highly successful and not just a mixed bag, or many of the Nebraska electorate would be upset if Nebraska became another New Mexico clone that's often at the bottom in stats. And partaking into a large public transit project like this one, that is a mixed bag, could damage the image of pursuing other viable transit projects like the streetcar.

It seems that the only way that a rail line would be able to compete with the car and be a success between Lincoln and Omaha, would be a "bullet train".
As well as electrification, double-tracking or express rail routes; would cut down travel times. Since Albuquerque has a problem of infrequent trains and outdated infrastructure, like single tracks limiting frequency.

Currently the car is the most convenient and fastest way to get between Lincoln and Omaha.

Do post your counter arguments because it is imperative that we weigh the benefits and drawbacks in partaking in a commuter rail project like this one.
I like the idea of trains making a return, as long as the projects are viable.

Fun fact: Albuquerque has a street named "Omaha"
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Re: Passenger rail between Omaha and Lincoln

Post by GenX »

Renovator2559 wrote: Sun Mar 30, 2025 7:33 pm It appears that people in those cities are opting to drive, instead of using the commuter rail. Since they prefer the 1 hour drive vs the 1 hour and 45 minutes on rail. The initial excitement people had, has waned and their i25 congestion doesn't appear to be alleviated.
This is what I predict would be the result of a OMA-LNK line were it to be done at this time. Yes, a modest number will use it, but to give up an additional hour (each way?) to save driving 45 minutes just wouldn’t make sense to a lot of people around here.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m a fan of it, I’m just afraid we’re not quite there yet. I think a successful streetcar might change local minds though.
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Re: Passenger rail between Omaha and Lincoln

Post by NEDodger »

EricHaley wrote: Sun Mar 30, 2025 8:24 pm
Renovator2559 wrote: Sun Mar 30, 2025 7:33 pm It appears that people in those cities are opting to drive, instead of using the commuter rail. Since they prefer the 1 hour drive vs the 1 hour and 45 minutes on rail. The initial excitement people had, has waned and their i25 congestion doesn't appear to be alleviated.
This is what I predict would be the result of a OMA-LNK line were it to be done at this time. Yes, a modest number will use it, but to give up an additional hour (each way?) to save driving 45 minutes just wouldn’t make sense to a lot of people around here.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m a fan of it, I’m just afraid we’re not quite there yet. I think a successful streetcar might change local minds though.
Yeesh. These numbers look terrible.
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Re: Passenger rail between Omaha and Lincoln

Post by Gobears27 »

I want Omaha and Lincoln to have better public transportation systems before building regional rail.
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Re: Passenger rail between Omaha and Lincoln

Post by Renovator2559 »

EricHaley wrote: Sun Mar 30, 2025 8:24 pm This is what I predict would be the result of a OMA-LNK line were it to be done at this time. Yes, a modest number will use it, but to give up an additional hour (each way?) to save driving 45 minutes just wouldn’t make sense to a lot of people around here.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m a fan of it, I’m just afraid we’re not quite there yet. I think a successful streetcar might change local minds though.
Streetcars work and KC’s evidence. Honolulu and California rail bleed cash, miss deadlines. Why the mess? Know of other solid Omaha-Lincoln-scale rail commuter projects?
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Re: Passenger rail between Omaha and Lincoln

Post by TitosBuritoBarn »

Renovator2559 wrote: Tue Apr 01, 2025 7:06 pm
EricHaley wrote: Sun Mar 30, 2025 8:24 pm This is what I predict would be the result of a OMA-LNK line were it to be done at this time. Yes, a modest number will use it, but to give up an additional hour (each way?) to save driving 45 minutes just wouldn’t make sense to a lot of people around here.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m a fan of it, I’m just afraid we’re not quite there yet. I think a successful streetcar might change local minds though.
Streetcars work and KC’s evidence. Honolulu and California rail bleed cash, miss deadlines. Why the mess? Know of other solid Omaha-Lincoln-scale rail commuter projects?
Honolulu's issues stem from all sorts of things from severe cost overruns to bad contractors (including crumbling viaduct pillars and wrong-sized train wheel gauges) to having the initial line connecting suburbia with suburbia and not the airport or the city center or even some of the resort areas. You'll need to be more specific with "California rail" as I can count nine different rail agencies you might be referring to.

As Garrett mentioned above, ABQ to Santa Fe is the main equivalent to what would be an OMA to LNK line. The NM state DOT runs it and it does fine. Everything else I'm familiar with is too much of an apples to oranges comparison, so our rail link would be relatively unique in North America.
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Re: Passenger rail between Omaha and Lincoln

Post by Athomsfere »

EricHaley wrote: Sun Mar 30, 2025 8:24 pm
Renovator2559 wrote: Sun Mar 30, 2025 7:33 pm It appears that people in those cities are opting to drive, instead of using the commuter rail. Since they prefer the 1 hour drive vs the 1 hour and 45 minutes on rail. The initial excitement people had, has waned and their i25 congestion doesn't appear to be alleviated.
This is what I predict would be the result of a OMA-LNK line were it to be done at this time. Yes, a modest number will use it, but to give up an additional hour (each way?) to save driving 45 minutes just wouldn’t make sense to a lot of people around here.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m a fan of it, I’m just afraid we’re not quite there yet. I think a successful streetcar might change local minds though.
This is where I am. I freaking love transit, and hate driving. But when we are talking about optimistically doubling travel time? Even I'd probably drive.

Most of the time when we go to Lincoln at least its for the Haymarket. But if we wanted to hit Sunken Gardens or see some friends: We'd be stranded or paying entirely too much for Uber.

Honestly I have a hard time seeing that Omaha could have done any better than this streetcar. Anything more ambitious and I imagine the uproar would be even louder. Imagine spending $10 billion for LRT west O to downtown (what people claim they want). With our existing network that would probably serve even less people for decades.
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Re: Passenger rail between Omaha and Lincoln

Post by PotatoeEatsFish »

It’s a pretty easy solution, literally have 1 single train that goes from the Omaha Amtrak station downtown to the Lincoln Haymarket station. The only reason this wouldn’t work is railroads being greedy but with UP headquartered here I think the public could push them to do something. One of their only Fortune 500 companies renovated the park and brought a streetcar just for a new headquarters. It’s pretty sad if the largest railroad in the company couldn’t have even a single train between their headquarters and downtown Lincoln. I’m just getting sick of these billion+ dollar companies not investing in their communities when they could solve so many issues with 10% of their annual income. God forbid their investors don’t make a 150% profit in their fruits year knowing the people who run Omaha.
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Re: Passenger rail between Omaha and Lincoln

Post by damonhynes »

PotatoeEatsFish wrote: Sun May 25, 2025 6:45 am It’s a pretty easy solution, literally have 1 single train that goes from the Omaha Amtrak station downtown to the Lincoln Haymarket station. The only reason this wouldn’t work is railroads being greedy but with UP headquartered here I think the public could push them to do something. One of their only Fortune 500 companies renovated the park and brought a streetcar just for a new headquarters. It’s pretty sad if the largest railroad in the company couldn’t have even a single train between their headquarters and downtown Lincoln. I’m just getting sick of these billion+ dollar companies not investing in their communities when they could solve so many issues with 10% of their annual income. God forbid their investors don’t make a 150% profit in their fruits year knowing the people who run Omaha.
Except it's BuffettNorthernSantaFe who runs the most direct line from OMA to LNK, not UP.

Also, it simplistic to state that your 'point-to-point' example would draw traffic. Maybe everyone whose departure point was within one block of Haymarket, and destination was within one block of UP's HQ might find it useful, ignoring the matter of train frequency.

Face it, the US is not Europe. Or Japan. Or Shanghai. The only way you fit the square peg of Ussian mentality into the round hole of United Federation of Planets-ish progressive utopian urban planning is at bayonet point. Ussians(clap)don't(clap)want(clap)mass(clap)transit(clap). They want to drive when they want, to where they want, with no passengers. And they're willing to vote for politicians who will give them more highway lane-miles.
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Re: Passenger rail between Omaha and Lincoln

Post by Big E »

damonhynes wrote: Sun May 25, 2025 9:14 amAnd they're willing to vote for politicians who will give them more highway lane-miles.
... so long as they only go places they want to go and someone else pays for them.
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Re: Passenger rail between Omaha and Lincoln

Post by TitosBuritoBarn »

damonhynes wrote: Sun May 25, 2025 9:14 am
PotatoeEatsFish wrote: Sun May 25, 2025 6:45 am It’s a pretty easy solution, literally have 1 single train that goes from the Omaha Amtrak station downtown to the Lincoln Haymarket station. The only reason this wouldn’t work is railroads being greedy but with UP headquartered here I think the public could push them to do something. One of their only Fortune 500 companies renovated the park and brought a streetcar just for a new headquarters. It’s pretty sad if the largest railroad in the company couldn’t have even a single train between their headquarters and downtown Lincoln. I’m just getting sick of these billion+ dollar companies not investing in their communities when they could solve so many issues with 10% of their annual income. God forbid their investors don’t make a 150% profit in their fruits year knowing the people who run Omaha.
Except it's BuffettNorthernSantaFe who runs the most direct line from OMA to LNK, not UP.

Also, it simplistic to state that your 'point-to-point' example would draw traffic. Maybe everyone whose departure point was within one block of Haymarket, and destination was within one block of UP's HQ might find it useful, ignoring the matter of train frequency.

Face it, the US is not Europe. Or Japan. Or Shanghai. The only way you fit the square peg of Ussian mentality into the round hole of United Federation of Planets-ish progressive utopian urban planning is at bayonet point. Ussians(clap)don't(clap)want(clap)mass(clap)transit(clap). They want to drive when they want, to where they want, with no passengers. And they're willing to vote for politicians who will give them more highway lane-miles.
Counterpoint: husker game days + booze and access to OMA. You forget the internal battle these same people have between wanting to drive everywhere and also having convenient parking or being able to get waste-y pants and not worrying about a DUI.
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