Omaha Eppley Airfield - DISCUSSION

[nativeomahan]

Agreed. Eppley is dealing with people who are getting to the airport and might have an hour to kill, so a quick service option would work better than a full blown steakhouse. I’ve kinda hated how fancy some airports have gotten with their restaurants as it’s hard to get a decent meal for under $20, especially sit down concepts have taken over.

“Under $20”? I spent over $60 a few years ago having dinner and ONE craft beer at a bar/restaurant in Houston. Last week I spent close to $40 having a BBQ pork sandwich and ONE craft beer at Denver. We joke when returning from Mexico that by far the most expensive meal we have during our entire 4 or 5 week trip happens at the connecting airport in the U.S.

[nativeomahan]

Has anybody been through the new security at DEN? It is super nice. They have individual doors and areas for each 2 lanes. It's quiet, calming and very efficient. I feel like this is the security of the future!

We went through it last week and it was much nicer than the previous setup, which resembled a cattle stockyards (minus the smell).

[nativeomahan]

I would love to see Runza there along with maybe Amigos for the mexican. That would give us some local restaurants. Also hope they keep Godfather's as well.

Maybe Scooters could be the coffee instead of Starbucks.

I really, really really hope they keep fast (junk) food outlets to the bare minimum. I don’t see much evidence of fast food at Denver or Phoenix, the two airports I frequent most. Coffee outlets typically include Starbucks, Peet’s and Caribou at those airports, with maybe a local brand thrown into the mix.

[joleo]

I would love to see Runza there along with maybe Amigos for the mexican. That would give us some local restaurants. Also hope they keep Godfather's as well.

Maybe Scooters could be the coffee instead of Starbucks.

I really, really really hope they keep fast (junk) food outlets to the bare minimum. I don’t see much evidence of fast food at Denver or Phoenix, the two airports I frequent most. Coffee outlets typically include Starbucks, Peet’s and Caribou at those airports, with maybe a local brand thrown into the mix.

Yes, I sure hope they do as well, keep the fast (junk) food away!

Also, where can you get a meal period for under $20 once you include, tax, tip etc? Unless drinking water. Eating out is very expensive! I had one beer, and a basic meal at dsm airport a month ago and it was $38 with tax and tip. (no appetizer). Pretty standard. Beer was $10, meal $20 and then tax and tip.

[Bob from Omaha]

Re: Chick Fil A, they are located in the Detroit airport in both terminals and yes, they are closed on Sundays. They are in dozens of airports.

[Mr.Nuke]

Re: Chick Fil A, they are located in the Detroit airport in both terminals and yes, they are closed on Sundays. They are in dozens of airports.

Yeah and I don't think anyone is disputing that. One of the companies (I forget which one it was one of the bigger three) has a working relationship with them at airports. That is pretty much irrelevant here though, because Eppley is in not so uncertain terms saying don't throw a Chick-fil-a at us in your proposal. I'm assuming that is because they want everything open 7 days a week and that seems like a reasonable request.

[Bob from Omaha]

Re: Chick Fil A, they are located in the Detroit airport in both terminals and yes, they are closed on Sundays. They are in dozens of airports.

Yeah and I don't think anyone is disputing that. One of the companies (I forget which one it was one of the bigger three) has a working relationship with them at airports. That is pretty much irrelevant here though, because Eppley is in not so uncertain terms saying don't throw a Chick-fil-a at us in your proposal. I'm assuming that is because they want everything open 7 days a week and that seems like a reasonable request.

Well, over 30 airports have them and a friend who is higher up at one of them said they did a survey of travelers and low and behold, the travelers want Chick Fil A, so they put them in.

[Mr.Nuke]

Well, over 30 airports have them and a friend who is higher up at one of them said they did a survey of travelers and low and behold, the travelers want Chick Fil A, so they put them in.

Yeah and I'm going to throw in two more airports that have them below, but like I said I don't blame an airport of Eppley's size where there are still going to be somewhat limited dining options for not wanting one that is closed 15% of the time. Being in a hub with 30 million+ like DTW is a bit of a different situation dining wise than Eppley where per the RFP they're looking at only 7 for sure concepts with the option for someone to propose two more for a total of 9 concepts.

OTOH, I get what the airport is trying to do there, but on some hand it also seems like you've already got a captive audience. If someone that had been wanting chicken on Sunday can't get chicken, presumably they're still going to get food. An economist would call that the substitution effect. The net-effect to the airport should be next to nothing. People that are going to eat are still going to eat. The airport will still get its cut of the revenue, etc. It will be interesting to see what HMSHost is proposing for that spot, because they're one of (if not the one) with the Chick-fil-a relationship.

I really, really really hope they keep fast (junk) food outlets to the bare minimum. I don’t see much evidence of fast food at Denver or Phoenix, the two airports I frequent most. Coffee outlets typically include Starbucks, Peet’s and Caribou at those airports, with maybe a local brand thrown into the mix.

I do too, but Denver literally has a McDonald's in all 3 terminals. A also has a Panda Express and a KFC/Pizza hut. B Has a Chick-fil-A, Shake Shack, and a Qdoba. American and Southwest's terminal at Phoenix has a McDonald's, a Wendy's, a Fazoli's, a Panda Express, a Chick-fil-A, and a Panera.

[nebport5]

Fast Casual Mexican with "an ample selection of quality wines".
Interesting. Of course you can pair wine with any cuisine but the majority of people eating at such an establishment (and likely the other quick casuals) who order alcohol will get beer.

Yeah I don’t think the wine requirement is there to pair with the food. It is there because it may be the only bar at that end of the terminal covering about 10 gates or nearly half of the airport (there is an optional local bar/food down there in between gates too). Anecdotally every airport/bar/airline lounge I’ve been to there is at least one person drinking wine. I think they probably know what they’re doing here.

I wasn't suggesting people don't drink wine at airports per se as I'm one of them. And pairing or not, it just seems like odd bedfellows with casual Mexican vs with Continental or American fare that I see in most airports but I hear your point on the terminal location and being the obligatory wine option.


Overall, it wouldn't take much to upgrade the current food and beverage choices and hopefully a few of the right local places will make the cut.

[skinzfan23]

I’m all for not having a ton of fast food places but there are plenty of times where you just need a quick bite to eat and fast food serves that need. I remember in Miami last year and just a get a quick crappy, soggy sandwich, it was over $10. I would have gladly gotten some fast food but the lines were so long and we didn’t have time. Definitely think there is a need for 1-2 fast food places.

I would love to see a diner like they had at Newark.

[Garrett]

I’m all for not having a ton of fast food places but there are plenty of times where you just need a quick bite to eat and fast food serves that need. I remember in Miami last year and just a get a quick crappy, soggy sandwich, it was over $10. I would have gladly gotten some fast food but the lines were so long and we didn’t have time. Definitely think there is a need for 1-2 fast food places.

I would love to see a diner like they had at Newark.

Yeah I’d love to just have a Runza at the airport for fast food options. Something that’s locally Nebraskan, and it would help me get my fix in on my visits haha. But otherwise, I’m fine with mid tier and even higher end options. And again, the more local they can do the better.

[nativeomahan]

As it stands in 2024 departing passengers are told to arrive at Eppley at least 2 hours before scheduled departure time, which essentially allows you about 60 minutes of free time on overage once you check in and go through security, before you line up to board. Sometimes checking in and getting through security takes longer and sometimes your flight is delayed, but on average you have about an hour to do whatever. That’s enough time to have a meal of some sort at a sit down eating place. So it’s entirely appropriate for Eppley to have a good mix of full service restaurants along with “grab and go” and the Chipotle/Panera type fast casual places. We all recognize that whatever choices are selected to occupy the new terminal they will be far better than what we have now.
As an aside, the eastern portion of the Southwest Terminal (terminal C) at Denver is so user friendly! Sofas and lounge chairs and easy access to electric outlets at every gate. I hope that the seating area at the redesigned Eppley resembles this re-do at Denver.

[joleo]

As it stands in 2024 departing passengers are told to arrive at Eppley at least 2 hours before scheduled departure time, which essentially allows you about 60 minutes of free time on overage once you check in and go through security, before you line up to board. Sometimes checking in and getting through security takes longer and sometimes your flight is delayed, but on average you have about an hour to do whatever. That’s enough time to have a meal of some sort at a sit down eating place. So it’s entirely appropriate for Eppley to have a good mix of full service restaurants along with “grab and go” and the Chipotle/Panera type fast casual places. We all recognize that whatever choices are selected to occupy the new terminal they will be far better than what we have now.
As an aside, the eastern portion of the Southwest Terminal (terminal C) at Denver is so user friendly! Sofas and lounge chairs and easy access to electric outlets at every gate. I hope that the seating area at the redesigned Eppley resembles this re-do at Denver.

Couldn't agree more! The west end of Terminal A at Denver is also super nice, even nicer than the East end of C in my opinion!! The new security area is also the best I've ever seen in the world as I previously mentioned! Does Denver have the same architect is Eppley?

[Big E]

As it stands in 2024 departing passengers are told to arrive at Eppley at least 2 hours before scheduled departure time...

FWIW you can get in an Uber in downtown and get through TSA PreCheck (assuming you're carryon only) and put your belt back on in less than 20 min total, at least on the north side. Do it routinely.

Unless you're on a pre-7a flight in the security line with literally everyone whose flight takes off before 930a that all think they have to be there at 7a, you'll never be more than 2nd or 3rd in a TSA PreCheck line at OMA.

[GenX]

Re: Chick Fil A, they are located in the Detroit airport in both terminals and yes, they are closed on Sundays. They are in dozens of airports.

Even their flagship location at the new Atlanta Falcon’s stadium was famously closed when the Super Bowl was played there.

[halgy]

Re: Chick Fil A, they are located in the Detroit airport in both terminals and yes, they are closed on Sundays. They are in dozens of airports.

Even their flagship location at the new Atlanta Falcon’s stadium was famously closed when the Super. Owl was played there.

Why would there be a Chick Fil A at an NFL stadium? The majority of the games are on Sunday.

[Louie]

Re: Chick Fil A, they are located in the Detroit airport in both terminals and yes, they are closed on Sundays. They are in dozens of airports.

Even their flagship location at the new Atlanta Falcon’s stadium was famously closed when the Super. Owl was played there.

Why would there be a Chick Fil A at an NFL stadium? The majority of the games are on Sunday.

That is hilarious. I know they host their MLS team there too, but come on lol.

[nebugeater]

Re: Chick Fil A, they are located in the Detroit airport in both terminals and yes, they are closed on Sundays. They are in dozens of airports.

Even their flagship location at the new Atlanta Falcon’s stadium was famously closed when the Super. Owl was played there.

Why would there be a Chick Fil A at an NFL stadium? The majority of the games are on Sunday.

It is not NFL season but it is used for much more than NFL games. On their website, the future events list shows about 25 major items scheduled. Of those, there are only two scheduled on a Sunday

[joleo]

Des Moines new terminal fly through video for comparison to the new Eppley terminal

[thenewguy]

i think that looks nice. it looks very clean and sleek

[Bearcat06]

Des Moines new terminal fly through video for comparison to the new Eppley terminal

Looks a little similar to what OMA is doing. Open, Modern, centralized security.

Also, I didn't realize OMA had a fly through video as well.

https://www.buildoma.com/

Seeing the fly thru of the security area reminds me a bit of ATL where they have the back and forth lines and about 10-12 TSA stations at the end and is usually fairly efficient.

[jjjjhskr]

Frontier started 3 day per week flights to DFW today. Introductory fares starting at $19 until July 1. This should help lower fares to DFW.

[FishFighter92]

Frontier started 3 day per week flights to DFW today. Introductory fares starting at $19 until July 1. This should help lower fares to DFW.

Monday, Wednesday, Friday
F9 3235 to Dallas
F9 3236 to Omaha

[Bob from Omaha]

April numbers are out. Plus 3.6% for the month, plus 6.1% for the year. Of note: American, Delta & Southwest up healthy. United down over 12%. Thoughts Nuke?

April Eppley Numbers

[Mr.Nuke]

April numbers are out. Plus 3.6% for the month, plus 6.1% for the year. Of note: American, Delta & Southwest up healthy. United down over 12%. Thoughts Nuke?

April Eppley Numbers

Not much to add. United had ridiculous growth to this point last year. They were up 37.3% for the month and 55.3% for the year, so some sort of correction at some point seemed inevitable. We'll see what happens there going forward, and then obviously growth overall slowed for the month. We'll see what happens now that we start to get into summer vacation time over the next several months.

[joleo]

April numbers are out. Plus 3.6% for the month, plus 6.1% for the year. Of note: American, Delta & Southwest up healthy. United down over 12%. Thoughts Nuke?

April Eppley Numbers

Not much to add. United had ridiculous growth to this point last year. They were up 37.3% for the month and 55.3% for the year, so some sort of correction at some point seemed inevitable. We'll see what happens there going forward, and then obviously growth overall slowed for the month. We'll see what happens now that we start to get into summer vacation time over the next several months.

United quit flying OMA-SFO is why they are down. It comes back August 19th this fall and goes double daily starting September 26th. Both flights on 76 seat regional jets this time which is great!

United switched a ton of the midwest SFO routes to double daily starting this fall to aide in international connections, OMA being one of about 10 routes that goes to double daily from SFO starting this fall. Numbers should be back to the positive on United starting then from OMA. Now if only OMA-EWR could possibly come back would be amazing for me and many others!!

[Mr.Nuke]

United quit flying OMA-SFO is why they are down.

I mean that is certainly part of it, but it doesn't entirely explain it either. They flew 6,316 people on the direct flights to San Francisco in April of 2023. They're down 8,863 for the month. They still retain ~40-50% of the OMA-SFO market so it stands to reason that a fair number of the people actually going to SFO still flew United through DEN as I did in November shortly after the flight ended. I don't have seat data for April, but for February DEN was down by several hundred seats offered for the month versus 2023, and both IAH and ORD were down several in the thousands. That is probably as big if not the larger reason for the decline.

[NEDodger]

United quit flying OMA-SFO is why they are down.

I mean that is certainly part of it, but it doesn't entirely explain it either. They flew 6,316 people on the direct flights to San Francisco in April of 2023. They're down 8,863 for the month. They still retain ~40-50% of the OMA-SFO market so it stands to reason that a fair number of the people actually going to SFO still flew United through DEN as I did in November shortly after the flight ended. I don't have seat data for April, but for February DEN was down by several hundred seats offered for the month versus 2023, and both IAH and ORD were down several in the thousands. That is probably as big if not the larger reason for the decline.

Obviously anecdotal, but we have had to plan numerous plane trips recently. We are typically United fliers but have noticed that their ticket prices haven’t been close to competitive with AA or even Delta recently. I can attest that we are being driven away at least, so others may be experiencing the same?

[joleo]

United quit flying OMA-SFO is why they are down.

I mean that is certainly part of it, but it doesn't entirely explain it either. They flew 6,316 people on the direct flights to San Francisco in April of 2023. They're down 8,863 for the month. They still retain ~40-50% of the OMA-SFO market so it stands to reason that a fair number of the people actually going to SFO still flew United through DEN as I did in November shortly after the flight ended. I don't have seat data for April, but for February DEN was down by several hundred seats offered for the month versus 2023, and both IAH and ORD were down several in the thousands. That is probably as big if not the larger reason for the decline.

Your thought process would be correct if flights were only half full. The issue is, United averages over an 80% paid load factor so basically, planes are full so if SFO isn't flying, then yes some passengers are connecting via DEN but that might push some DEN only passengers to either drive or not take the trip. For example, I'm needing to fly DSM-DEN Jun 8th-15th but flights were $1,000 roundtrip so I'm driving instead. If it was $400 or less, I would have flown. Last winter, I was needing to fly OMA-DEN but it was $550 roundtrip, way too expensive for a short flight like this, so I just decided not to take the trip.

[FishFighter92]

United quit flying OMA-SFO is why they are down.

I mean that is certainly part of it, but it doesn't entirely explain it either. They flew 6,316 people on the direct flights to San Francisco in April of 2023. They're down 8,863 for the month. They still retain ~40-50% of the OMA-SFO market so it stands to reason that a fair number of the people actually going to SFO still flew United through DEN as I did in November shortly after the flight ended. I don't have seat data for April, but for February DEN was down by several hundred seats offered for the month versus 2023, and both IAH and ORD were down several in the thousands. That is probably as big if not the larger reason for the decline.

But we're not flying to SFO. We were just connecting through. I've been connecting through other airports now, such as ORD, DEN and I've been doing AA at LAX (not recommended). I know, I know, I'm just one person.

[Bearcat06]

Things are really happening everyone!

[Bearcat06]

April numbers are out. Plus 3.6% for the month, plus 6.1% for the year. Of note: American, Delta & Southwest up healthy. United down over 12%. Thoughts Nuke?

April Eppley Numbers

Updated estimate at a clip of 6.1% improvement over 2023 numbers puts OMA at around 5.3 million passengers for 2024.

[Louie]

April numbers are out. Plus 3.6% for the month, plus 6.1% for the year. Of note: American, Delta & Southwest up healthy. United down over 12%. Thoughts Nuke?

April Eppley Numbers

Updated estimate at a clip of 6.1% improvement over 2023 numbers puts OMA at around 5.3 million passengers for 2024.

I wonder how much the upcoming construction will affect the numbers.

[skinzfan23]

I can't imagine that construction will impact the numbers too much. Most people are still going to travel if they have vacations there isn't another close option (and OMA is still open and operating at full strength) Same goes for business travelers, they will still travel even if parts of the airport are being worked on.

[joleo]

I can't imagine that construction will impact the numbers too much. Most people are still going to travel if they have vacations there isn't another close option (and OMA is still open and operating at full strength) Same goes for business travelers, they will still travel even if parts of the airport are being worked on.

I agree. Where number really can go up is 3 fold:

1-Added nonstop routes (pulls people away from other airports and cars and encourages additional travel from some that might not have traveled otherwise). Single largest driver in added numbers. (San Diego, Boston, Tampa, Portland, Milwaukee, more LA service)

2-Inviting terminal...conscious or subconscious, when travel is enjoyable, people want to send more time at the airport before a flight and travel more often. This includes architecture, terminal open-ness, windows, high ceilings and good food.

3-Access to the airport. For example a good friend the lives in downtown Denver said she now flies twice as often as she used to when they extended the train to the airport. She said the train was dicey the first year but now is really good and reliable. She said it's super easy, no traffic, no driving, no parking, no shuttles from parking lots etc. (Not everybody agrees but Omaha needs to extend street car to eppley, not on the pavement, but parallel to Abbott Drive). Pull it off the pavement right after convention center - same approach as Edinburgh, works really well. Only thing that needs to happen now is Eppley planning for this in their master plan - Space for a station and tracks.

[GenX]

Things are really happening everyone!

Can’t really tell from the pictures, but have they installed any of the glass yet?

[thenewguy]

Things are really happening everyone!

Can’t really tell from the pictures, but have they installed any of the glass yet?

i zoomed way the heck in and it looks like it's just supports for the glass, but not the actual glass itself.

[GrowUpFrances]

Yes, I was there this week and did not see any actual glass up yet.

[Mr.Nuke]

Your thought process would be correct if flights were only half full. The issue is, United averages over an 80% paid load factor so basically, planes are full so if SFO isn't flying, then yes some passengers are connecting via DEN but that might push some DEN only passengers to either drive or not take the trip. For example, I'm needing to fly DSM-DEN Jun 8th-15th but flights were $1,000 roundtrip so I'm driving instead. If it was $400 or less, I would have flown. Last winter, I was needing to fly OMA-DEN but it was $550 roundtrip, way too expensive for a short flight like this, so I just decided not to take the trip.

Well for starters this is an aside to an aside, because it isn’t my main point. The main point is even without diving into the data, I have a hard time contending that United is down at Eppley because they quit flying to SFO when they’re down at Eppley much further than the flight to SFO… But to the load factor discussion, despite pulling capacity their load factor was +~3% for OMA-DEN, +~10% for ORD, and relatively flat for OMA-IAH in February.

But to your point sure some of that is undoubtedly happening where people that were flying to or may have been connecting through the SFO flight are now going through DEN and potentially pricing someone out of a DEN flight or onto Frontier or Southwest. That is probably in the tens of passengers per day though at the most based on the number of passengers per day that had been going to or through SFO. Again a factor, but not the major factor.

United quit flying OMA-SFO is why they are down.

All I was saying in my response to you was that you can’t ascribe the reason for being down to them not flying to SFO when they’re down at Eppley in passengers/seats well in excess to that they had flown to SFO. In February looking at OMA->XYZ, SFO was down 85 passengers per day due to them not flying the route at all. But even routes flown were down significantly as well. ORD was down 50 passengers per day, IAH 58 and DEN 16.

Solely out of Omaha SFO was about 41% of United’s passenger declines for the month alone, but ORD and IAH had major declines as well representing a combined 51% of the United's decline for the month with DEN representing the rest. Chicago and Houston combined are responsible more for United’s overall decline in February (it will be the same in April too), despite both routes still being operated. IAH and ORD also had more combined seats pulled for the month as well. So not flying to SFO is a major factor for why United is down this year, but the bigger factor is they’ve actually pulled seats from markets they had been flying to with greater frequencies.

But we're not flying to SFO. We were just connecting through. I've been connecting through other airports now, such as ORD, DEN and I've been doing AA at LAX (not recommended). I know, I know, I'm just one person.

If you were flying through ORD or DEN on United, you are still obviously flying United. That was kind of my point in saying based on data we know a fair amount of the capacity of people that had been flying to or through SFO on United are likely being absorbed by United through other places still. The people flying to SFO for SFO is easier for me to get data on. Obviously your case/s were you shifted to going through LAX represent a loss to United, and that loss is already accounted for on the year over year comparisons.

[Mr.Nuke]

I wonder how much the upcoming construction will affect the numbers.

It should be pretty much zero. The people that want to fly in and out of Omaha are still going to do. And recall from the actual construction perspective, this is being done right now, because the airport believes they have excess capacity with gates particularly to be flexible in moving things around as construction progresses i.e. the 10 gates in the South terminal are already re-positioned now into the configuration they'll be in for the bulk of the construction process. Basically there shouldn't be a reason for any airline to reduce capacity to Eppley because of the construction itself.