Dodge Park Development

[Doctor Fate]

Did I miss something?

The Beam will be a 17 story residential high rise by the new Children’s Museum, with 12 floors of apartments/amenities and 5 floors of parking.

[iamjacobm]

I know we are debating a conceptual plan, but I feel like there should be more SFH on the eastern portion. Basically drop all of the multi story buildings to the east of what would be 40th Street and do the below. Feels like it would have a more inviting feel than apt blocks with hidden surface parking. Then ramp up the density toward the river.

The Wheeler District in OKC is going in on the river and has a lot of small lot detached for sale homes further from the river and looks to be now ramping up the density with attached townhomes and apts.

[Brad]

8300 is high. Even if you took out 200 for the hotel (which is also high), that still over 2 stalls per unit which is way higher than a suburban apartment development.

It varies by City, typically a development with 3900 residential units would have around 6800 parking stalls. In Omaha you could cut that in half with the TOD zoning.

These are their calculations. It’s definitely high for what should be a TOD.

Ok, that includes the office and other uses too, that makes them more typical.

[TitosBuritoBarn]

8300 is high. Even if you took out 200 for the hotel (which is also high), that still over 2 stalls per unit which is way higher than a suburban apartment development.

It varies by City, typically a development with 3900 residential units would have around 6800 parking stalls. In Omaha you could cut that in half with the TOD zoning.

These are their calculations. It’s definitely high for what should be a TOD.

It bothers me that they are using "missing middle housing," a media buzzword, to refer to, I'm assuming, three-flats and four-flats.

[Dusty]

1800 surface lot stalls. At least they built the buildings to wrap around the outside of the block. Since the surface lots are in the center, they could develop this with infill in time. Eliminating the 1800 stalls with more density.

[ita]

I know we are debating a conceptual plan, but I feel like there should be more SFH on the eastern portion. Basically drop all of the multi story buildings to the east of what would be 40th Street and do the below. Feels like it would have a more inviting feel than apt blocks with hidden surface parking. Then ramp up the density toward the river.

The Wheeler District in OKC is going in on the river and has a lot of small lot detached for sale homes further from the river and looks to be now ramping up the density with attached townhomes and apts.

I like how that looks. 40th Street is their main street, which is supposed to have a lot of street level activity. However, most of the commercial uses is by the park on the north and according to the land use section, there is no commercial space south of the park. Again this is conceptual, but it could determine how they zone/master plan this property. South of the park/civic building, it would be nice to see more SFH/townhome housing, hopefully owner occupied, east of 40th.

[Omahayngin]

i really love that they have some towers on the river end of it

[PWL73316]

Obviously we all want it to be as successful and dense as possible but anything is an improvement on a dilapidated golf course. All the Broadmoor buildings right at the highway exit are kind of underrated success story considering how out-of-the-way they are.

The real winners of all this development will be the small number of SFH homeowners south of the interstate, property value would skyrocket.

Would love the parking to come down but with the Streetcar a 'maybe' at best you have to plan for the worst. If it's a huge success and they do get attached to transit you can always build on the surface lots later.

[PWL73316]

It bothers me that they are using "missing middle housing," a media buzzword, to refer to, I'm assuming, three-flats and four-flats.

In the conceptual plan, all these are buildings with between 4 and 8 units with between 800 and 1100 square feet per unit.

At this point I think 'missing middle' is far more than a media buzzword, it's escaped containment and is now just a category unto itself.

[thenewguy]

Did I miss something?

The Beam will be a 17 story residential high rise by the new Children’s Museum, with 12 floors of apartments/amenities and 5 floors of parking.

Oh I remember that now, thank you

[ita]

City Council voted no on making the property surplus.

[Garrett]

Welp, so much for the CB streetcar line

[skinzfan23]

It is a tricky situation. From what I read that land was donated to the city from Grenville Dodge to be used for park space. That is why most of the people were against it. Maybe they can develop another proposal that uses a smaller portion of the land that can get passed.

[ita]

It is a tricky situation. From what I read that land was donated to the city from Grenville Dodge to be used for park space. That is why most of the people were against it. Maybe they can develop another proposal that uses a smaller portion of the land that can get passed.

I think they said a portion of the land was donated with that intent. If it is only a portion, like you're saying just don't develop that part. If the city breaks the covenant, I am assuming it goes back to the Dodge's successors, or something like that. I would be interested to see what the covenant says. If it does revert, whoever gets it will sell to a developer anyway.

I always wonder about what these deeds actually say. Like Omaha used similar reasons to boot the River City Star folks, but its likely when they allowed them to operate it probably triggered some condition under the original donation deed.

[ita]

Welp, so much for the CB streetcar line

Maybe, maybe not. The streetcar is still in the early phases. Maybe the council will be different by the time they have to vote on streetcar related issues or Omaha's development due to the streetcar is so successful, they cannot deny the value of the extension (sorry, being overly optimistic). I have noticed that they are generally not as development friendly as Omaha's, for better and for worse.

[Dusty]

I don't see this as the end. It was a pretty close vote anyway. I don't think there were a lot of protesters complaining about heritage and original donors' intent. There was a lot of NIMBY comments like build housing somewhere else. Or you can't take away the one thing to do in Council Bluffs. In the next breath, they say most of the golfers are visitors from outside the area.

As for the streetcar, they are still conducting the environmental study. Time will tell.

[TitosBuritoBarn]

I agree that this is not likely the last nail in the coffin for a project here. I bet in a few years a new proposal will come out that considers the reasons why this one did not pass. And personally, I was a little wary of how the previous plan would be executed. We haven't quite got a grasp on these large, medium-density redevelopment projects yet. They largely end up being underwhelming and I think this property has too much potential to be squandered on "underwhelming." The aerial rendering looks pretty, but once you start examining the details, architecture and urban design is severely lacking. Granted I don't think the had gotten so far as to iron those out yet, but it wasn't off to a great start.

Regarding the streetcar, from talking to my source I don't think it is dependent on Dodge Park being redeveloped. I believe the evolution of the Broadway and 1st Ave corridors are more relevant to its existence.

[Dusty]

I almost feel they have the narrative all backwards. Let's build a bunch housing and with a few coffee shops. Then we can send you on a train/bus to Omaha where the jobs are at. It's like a bedroom community mindset. You just live here, but no jobs and nothing to do.

I think it's important to attract a few larger employers and attractions. The locals need something to support and be proud to call their own. Then Omaha residents can ride transit to visit and support the NEW Council Bluffs.

[Athomsfere]

I almost feel they have the narrative all backwards. Let's build a bunch housing and with a few coffee shops. Then we can send you on a train/bus to Omaha where the jobs are at. It's like a bedroom community mindset. You just live here, but no jobs and nothing to do.

I think it's important to attract a few larger employers and attractions. The locals need something to support and be proud to call their own. Then Omaha residents can ride transit to visit and support the NEW Council Bluffs.

Maybe, but probably a really hard sell to get a major employer to come over the river.

FE "Why should we move stuff to your tiny city?",

CB "We are right next to Omaha".

FE: "So we can just go to Omaha and not worry about it".

[Renovator2559]

There were some good elements to this but the surface lots...Who is going to want to look out their apartment window most of the year and see a surface lot as the centerpiece? Yes visitors would appreciate hidden surface lots, but what about the residents in the inner side that are subject to views of grey asphalt? A better design would incorporate plazas or green spaces.

Also, does anyone know if this development is now a pipe dream or if there are more alternative or better plans for Dodge Park?

Council Bluffs needs something good in that area, so we can have better pedestrian traffic between both riverbanks.
I appreciate the great points that TitosBurritoBarn made on another thread on Council Bluffs becoming more attractive, we definitely can't have an "East St. Louis" in our backyard. (East St. Louis was a tough place for me to visit last year) CB and Omaha have been great cooperators in the past, let that friendship continue.

[Dragonmaster]

Dusty is right

I almost feel they have the narrative all backwards. Let's build a bunch housing and with a few coffee shops. Then we can send you on a train/bus to Omaha where the jobs are at. It's like a bedroom community mindset. You just live here, but no jobs and nothing to do.

I think it's important to attract a few larger employers and attractions. The locals need something to support and be proud to call their own. Then Omaha residents can ride transit to visit and support the NEW Council Bluffs.

Maybe, but probably a really hard sell to get a major employer to come over the river.

FE "Why should we move stuff to your tiny city?",

CB "We are right next to Omaha".

FE: "So we can just go to Omaha and not worry about it".

[Dragonmaster]

What if we explored creating additional living spaces that are easily accessible to individuals experiencing homelessness? This initiative could make a profound difference in our community and greatly improve the quality of life for those in need.

[Athomsfere]

Dusty is right

??

I mean, on the one hand its a no-|expletive| sherlock, every city wants to attract businesses. But you don't make news releases for it the same way you do developments.

Attracting people is probably CB's best shot to get more investment.