Civic Square (former Civic Auditorium)

[OmahaFan]

They need to just replace this developer obviously they haven’t lived up to what’s been promised. It shouldn’t take this long for construction to occur. Get them out and get a competent developer. Smh

[djc311]

It's ridiculous that it's carried on this long - isn't that why the city admin has an attorney on hand?

It's actually quite embarrassing, and will be pushing Crossroads status soon. Maybe instead of taking the lowest bid, they should look at their competency as well? Regardless of what White Lotus has worked on before, there's no indication they could handle this scale of project well.

[Brad]

Maybe instead of taking the lowest bid, they should look at their competency as well?

This isn't a low bid situation, its actually just the opposite. The city owned these lots. This was an RFP where the city should have been looking for the best development for the site. I can't remember for sure, but wasn't White Lotus's original proposal in the RFP much more grand?

[Linkin5]

I’m not 100% sure but I don’t think the White Lotus plan has changed much (however real any of it was). I know the original Tetrad plan had something much more significant planned:

[nebport5]

I’m not 100% sure but I don’t think the White Lotus plan has changed much (however real any of it was).

It was mostly 4 over 1's stretched over the property and supposedly a 9 story office building.

Here's a link from Brad's post about 5 yrs ago.

[Garrett]

I’m not 100% sure but I don’t think the White Lotus plan has changed much (however real any of it was).

It was mostly 4 over 1's stretched over the property and supposedly a 9 story office building.

Here's a link from Brad's post about 5 yrs ago.

“Capital Avenue” staring me in the face in that rendering. Yeesh. What an embarrassment even then.

[nebport5]

The lesser “Capital” District.

[Linkin5]

I’m not 100% sure but I don’t think the White Lotus plan has changed much (however real any of it was).

It was mostly 4 over 1's stretched over the property and supposedly a 9 story office building.

Here's a link from Brad's post about 5 yrs ago.

Thank you I completely forgot about this rendering.

[CrankyOldDude]

What a ridiculous clown show this project is. Along with the Crossroads and the former UP site. Look at downtown Lincoln and to a lessor extent downtown Des Moines. Quite a bit of high rise residential. Not rehab of office space. New high rise residential. Omaha? Crickets.

[Flyer14]

Refurbishment of old office is just as important as building new high rises. It isn’t as glamorous but it’s needed. But I do agree the civic site is a circus.

[mcarch]

I’m not 100% sure but I don’t think the White Lotus plan has changed much (however real any of it was). I know the original Tetrad plan had something much more significant planned:

This would be amazing!

[TheLaggingNovice]

In case anyone was wondering.. this site is massive. You could literally build all of this on the site, and add 30k+ people to the area, and create an entirely different feeling to the entire city.



and if you really wanted to get aggressive with a multi-billion dollar investment, you could bulldoze that parking garage to the left, and build two other buildings there.




this is what the city should be selling if they really want to make a multi-generational shift... and market the city as the city of 2050+. But this would require a massive policy shift, huge tax incentives to get corporations to come and relocate.. and it would also require a significant change in perspective. while people will look at this and think it's crazy... this is essentially what Amazon did to Seattle.

[Garrett]

That’s nice and fun to fantasize about, but who is building that, and why? What’s the demand?

[thenewguy]

Surely there is an investor out there that would be able to pull off a residential building like the one in des moines going up right now. A vertical data center like the one in KC wouldn't even bother me. That's two towers that could be placed on site and then do whatever with the rest. I've never been a fan of any of the proposals for the site, even the tetrad one. It seemed like they were just aiming 'low,' and got 'low'. Creating a new 'district' seemed to be what they were after, when in reality, 'districts' will emerge naturally and have more of an identity than just making a 'village pointe east'

[mcarch]

That’s nice and fun to fantasize about, but who is building that, and why? What’s the demand?

That could be done (at least one of the taller towers) IF our developers could/would work together. It would be a mixed-use building in its true sense. Podium of Commerical/Office and parking garage (possibly grocery store). Then maybe more office, hotel, condos, indoor community center w/indoor pool, exercise, etc. Topped off with Condos and Apartments.

I like the taller tower in photo 1, and the left most tower in photo 2.

[Garrett]

That’s nice and fun to fantasize about, but who is building that, and why? What’s the demand?

That could be done (at least one of the taller towers) IF our developers could/would work together. It would be a mixed-use building in its true sense. Podium of Commerical/Office and parking garage (possibly grocery store). Then maybe more office, hotel, condos, indoor community center w/indoor pool, exercise, etc. Topped off with Condos and Apartments.

I like the taller tower in photo 1, and the left most tower in photo 2.

Yeah one building maybe. It this is a solid 9+ city blocks of development at Manhattan level densities. 30,000 new residents would quadruple the population of downtown, in buildings that look like they’d at least be doubling the amount of floor space downtown. Even if the market existed for that, there are still plenty of empty lots to spread this out in much cheaper to build 10 story buildings. This is Hudson Yards level of development hahaha

[TheLaggingNovice]

That’s nice and fun to fantasize about, but who is building that, and why? What’s the demand?

That could be done (at least one of the taller towers) IF our developers could/would work together. It would be a mixed-use building in its true sense. Podium of Commerical/Office and parking garage (possibly grocery store). Then maybe more office, hotel, condos, indoor community center w/indoor pool, exercise, etc. Topped off with Condos and Apartments.

I like the taller tower in photo 1, and the left most tower in photo 2.

Yeah one building maybe. It this is a solid 9+ city blocks of development at Manhattan level densities. 30,000 new residents would quadruple the population of downtown, in buildings that look like they’d at least be doubling the amount of floor space downtown. Even if the market existed for that, there are still plenty of empty lots to spread this out in much cheaper to build 10 story buildings. This is Hudson Yards level of development hahaha

LOL, no it's not. Hudson yards is 28 acres, Omaha civic site is 8. LMAO, which is even smaller than Bryant Park.

Hudson yards serves 125,000 people daily. There are over 18M SQFT of commercial and residential space in Hudson yards; 7 buildings of >900ft, and last I checked, 16 towers in the neighborhood.

That might be the worst comparison I've ever heard in terms of city scape, lol. I lived in NYC long before Hudson yards was even an idea, and back when the area was a dump; saw it go up one by one so the comparison is about unintelligent as comparing Shinkansen to Metro North Railroad. I get it, based on your profile, you're a recent transplant, but the comparison is comical at best. Omaha Civic site is 1/2 avenue block by 2 block street in Manhattan. Where do you get "9+ city blocks of development at Manhattan level densities."?

The first rendering has 9 buildings; The 2nd tallest building in the first depiction is 33 stories. omitting the mixed use ~700ft, building, the remaining 8 buildings combined = less sq. footage than 30 Hudson Yards, which is 1 of only 18 buildings that make up Hudson yards.

You clearly misunderstood the entire logic behind the concept.

[TitosBuritoBarn]

So then what is the logic behind the concept? To oversaturate the market?

[TheLaggingNovice]

Both of my might be a bit too young, but if you live in Omaha and want it to continue to grow, it's worth studying what Austin and Nashville did since 2005. For better or for worse, both cities have transformed in two decades time. I have zero connection to Omaha, but always found it to be a neat town with some significant potential when one of my relatives moved there. Many downtown core's would LOVE to have blank parcel of this size for ripe development. Hopefully the city government doesn't botch it.

"This is what the city should be selling if they really want to make a multi-generational shift... and market the city as the city of 2050+. But this would require a massive policy shift, huge tax incentives to get corporations to come and relocate.. and it would also require a significant change in perspective."

[TheLaggingNovice]

But comparing the development in the area in red, to the area in blue (which I'm certain Omaha Civic Site is smaller), is terrible assessment.

[Garrett]

Yeah you can |expletive| off.

You are, in your own words, proposing adding 30,000 people in an 8 acre site, more if you go for your larger AI generated "vision." For folks at home, that is a density of 2,400,000 people/square mile. Perhaps I was too generous with my Hudson Yards comparison. At that density, we're talking about the densest neighborhood on earth.

[guy4omaha]

We're obviously blessed with the enlightened observations of our benefactor novice. If only I was enlightened enough to appreciate the grandeur.

[locoluke]

It’s doable, we just need to be more aggressive with our TIF incentives.

[omaha79]

We can't even redevelop or rehab half the abandoned buildings in downtown Omaha as is and we have people walking around that think we can add 30k people to downtown Omaha on hopes and dreams? OMFG. This is the kind of over inflated attitude that I talk about that's dangerous in this market. I know this is one person, but this is the kind of attitude that thinks we need MLS sized stadiums, NHL arenas in Gretna, and theme parks.

Anyone comparing Omaha to Austin or Nashville has absolutely lost the plot. Not looking at things like being in the Sun Belt, close to other major metro areas, already existing pro sports landscapes, thriving nationally recognized art and music scenes that make Omaha look laughable, more large employers, and on, and on, and on.

this is why it takes decades to get anything done here as we can't strike the balance between grandiose and realistic and we have a generally inept city government that can't force the hand of developers who sell pie in the sky proposals and always over promise and under deliver.

[TitosBuritoBarn]

Both of my might be a bit too young, but if you live in Omaha and want it to continue to grow, it's worth studying what Austin and Nashville did since 2005. For better or for worse, both cities have transformed in two decades time. I have zero connection to Omaha, but always found it to be a neat town with some significant potential when one of my relatives moved there. Many downtown core's would LOVE to have blank parcel of this size for ripe development. Hopefully the city government doesn't botch it.

"This is what the city should be selling if they really want to make a multi-generational shift... and market the city as the city of 2050+. But this would require a massive policy shift, huge tax incentives to get corporations to come and relocate.. and it would also require a significant change in perspective."

You seem to be under the impression that Austin and Nashville decided one day to build a lot of tall buildings and the people and culture followed. It was the other way around. The culture was already established and drawing in a lot of people. The transformation that took place in their downtowns was a response to that. Omaha does not currently have an Austin- or Nashville-style cultural draw.

[CrankyOldDude]

Both of my might be a bit too young, but if you live in Omaha and want it to continue to grow, it's worth studying what Austin and Nashville did since 2005. For better or for worse, both cities have transformed in two decades time. I have zero connection to Omaha, but always found it to be a neat town with some significant potential when one of my relatives moved there. Many downtown core's would LOVE to have blank parcel of this size for ripe development. Hopefully the city government doesn't botch it.

"This is what the city should be selling if they really want to make a multi-generational shift... and market the city as the city of 2050+. But this would require a massive policy shift, huge tax incentives to get corporations to come and relocate.. and it would also require a significant change in perspective."

You seem to be under the impression that Austin and Nashville decided one day to build a lot of tall buildings and the people and culture followed. It was the other way around. The culture was already established and drawing in a lot of people. The transformation that took place in their downtowns was a response to that. Omaha does not currently have an Austin- or Nashville-style cultural draw.

Are you kidding, Titos?

In Omaha Warren Buffett still lives in the house he bought in the late 1800s. You can take a bus tour of locations of former locally owned restaurants. President Ford lived in Omaha for 2 weeks. Malcom X for a little longer. Omaha doesn't have any of those pesky mountains or oceans. Austin and Nashville may have their own style of music but in Omaha the local sound is tornado warning sirens. Oh, and Omaha has a chunk of Iowa shoved right up their a s s . So much to do.

[Garrett]

Both of my might be a bit too young, but if you live in Omaha and want it to continue to grow, it's worth studying what Austin and Nashville did since 2005. For better or for worse, both cities have transformed in two decades time. I have zero connection to Omaha, but always found it to be a neat town with some significant potential when one of my relatives moved there. Many downtown core's would LOVE to have blank parcel of this size for ripe development. Hopefully the city government doesn't botch it.

"This is what the city should be selling if they really want to make a multi-generational shift... and market the city as the city of 2050+. But this would require a massive policy shift, huge tax incentives to get corporations to come and relocate.. and it would also require a significant change in perspective."

You seem to be under the impression that Austin and Nashville decided one day to build a lot of tall buildings and the people and culture followed. It was the other way around. The culture was already established and drawing in a lot of people. The transformation that took place in their downtowns was a response to that. Omaha does not currently have an Austin- or Nashville-style cultural draw.

Are you kidding, Titos?

I believe he goes by BuritoBarn for short

[thenewguy]

[omaha79]

Both of my might be a bit too young, but if you live in Omaha and want it to continue to grow, it's worth studying what Austin and Nashville did since 2005. For better or for worse, both cities have transformed in two decades time. I have zero connection to Omaha, but always found it to be a neat town with some significant potential when one of my relatives moved there. Many downtown core's would LOVE to have blank parcel of this size for ripe development. Hopefully the city government doesn't botch it.

"This is what the city should be selling if they really want to make a multi-generational shift... and market the city as the city of 2050+. But this would require a massive policy shift, huge tax incentives to get corporations to come and relocate.. and it would also require a significant change in perspective."

You seem to be under the impression that Austin and Nashville decided one day to build a lot of tall buildings and the people and culture followed. It was the other way around. The culture was already established and drawing in a lot of people. The transformation that took place in their downtowns was a response to that. Omaha does not currently have an Austin- or Nashville-style cultural draw.

Are you kidding, Titos?

In Omaha Warren Buffett still lives in the house he bought in the late 1800s. You can take a bus tour of locations of former locally owned restaurants. President Ford lived in Omaha for 2 weeks. Malcom X for a little longer. Omaha doesn't have any of those pesky mountains or oceans. Austin and Nashville may have their own style of music but in Omaha the local sound is tornado warning sirens. Oh, and Omaha has a chunk of Iowa shoved right up their a s s . So much to do.

I mean, we have bars with cover bands and Fun Plex. And, we might be getting a Steak and Shake too. And, in a few years, we might just well have a mini Ikea! The sky is the limit!

The lack of recognition of the cultural differences blows my mind. Austin grew through the music scene, Austin City Limits, music incubators everywhere. Nashville is Nashville. The Grand Ol Opry, home of the country music establishment. All that. Omaha has had a couple moments of a thriving music scene on a micro scale that never quite panned out. early to mid 90's with 311 and then the bands that tried to make something off of themselves based on that and then the early to mid 00's with the Saddle Creek scene. But, even those things are a fly on a buffaloes arse compared to what has happened in Austin and Nashville in the last 30 years.

In terms of lifestyle, etc. I still feel like Omaha is closer to Des Moines or Wichita than any of these other cities. omaha does have a better corporate profile, but it's just a sleepy mostly forgotten town outside of the CWS.

[nativeomahan]

We need to follow the advice of legendary pop music dj icon Casey Kasem: “Keep your feet on the ground, and keep reaching for the stars.”

[thenewguy]

We need to follow the advice of legendary pop music dj icon Casey Kasem: “Keep your feet on the ground, and keep reaching for the stars.”

agree. I also didn't realize it was only music that makes it a cool city ;)