Are there too many condos downtown?

joeglow · Post by **joeglow** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 3:20 am

I ask this because I talked to 2 different people in the key demographic for condos about this (both around 30 and professionals working downtown). Both said the eventually want a house out West because they would prefer to raise their children there. However, they both said that would love to get a condo downtown for the next 5-7 years.

Ultimately, they both decided to move out West now because there are so many condos on the market and in the works to be built, they were afraid about taking a bath on the resale.

I guess, I wonder if we are building them so fast that we are scaring potential buyers away.

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 3:28 am

The buyers that back away have a false assessment of what is going on. The educated and a good general consensus is that DTO can handle thousands more.
That is funny though. They think there are to many condos in DTO one of the best residential booms going on in our town and people can't see what around the corner. And move out to suburban heck.

Post by **Brad** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 3:31 am

http://eomahaforums.com/phpBB/viewtopic ... sc&start=0

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 3:33 am

http://eomahaforums.com/phpBB/posting.p ... ply&t=5539

Uffda · Post by **Uffda** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:10 am

I think Joe's contacts are more worried that with the amount of condo that are being built and proposed that if they buy now their condo won't appreciate. It part of the risk in buying a house/condo anywhere so they chose out west hoping that at least their property will hold its own.

Personally i feel some of them are overpriced compared to what you are getting.

Also something I haven't noticed people talking about is schools -- if you want to bring all these people/families downtown you need the educational facilities and putting something controversial out here --- these people buying $200,000+ condos and if they have families are going to want top notch facilities that for the most prt at this time are only found out west.

adam186 · Post by **adam186** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:29 am

joeglow wrote:Ultimately, they both decided to move out West now because there are so many condos on the market and in the works to be built, they were afraid about taking a bath on the resale.

I guess, I wonder if we are building them so fast that we are scaring potential buyers away.

There is some truth to this, BUT keep in mind that it is buyers market right now in Omaha which means there are more home on the market than there are buyers especiall out west, the numbers don't lie. Real estate is a long term investment and most real estate appreciates over time whether it's a condo or a house out west. In short, downtown condos are doing great and will only continue to grow for sometime.

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:26 pm

I guess I don't see schools being a major concern for people looking to move DT. I think alot of people who move to the suburbs are looking only for the 'best' schools. I think they also want to distance themselves from minorities and diversity. I think people who choose to live DT aren't going to be as concerned about things that have nothing to do with education.

You've also got to consider that most people DT aren't going to have kids. Singles, couples that choose not to have kids, and retirees are the ones moving DT. It's just not the nature of the beast.

Uffda · Post by **Uffda** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 5:12 pm

You've also got to consider that most people DT aren't going to have kids. Singles, couples that choose not to have kids, and retirees are the ones moving DT.

OK that is acceptable to me but then people can't be complaining about people moving west to have their families.

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:15 pm

Downtown isn't the only neighborhood in the east for people to move to. I'm saying it wouldn't be very appealing to try to cram a family of 5-6 in a condo. They could get a house in Dundee or Midtown or South Omaha just as easy as out west.

joeglow · Post by **joeglow** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:33 pm

DTO Luv wrote:I guess I don't see schools being a major concern for people looking to move DT. I think alot of people who move to the suburbs are looking only for the 'best' schools. I think they also want to distance themselves from minorities and diversity. .

-What's the weather like on your high horse.

You admit that we need need to bring things like shopping downtown to attract people, but have no desire to bring more good schools downtown to attract families. The blatant hypocrisy is amazing. It is almost as if the people who love diversity only love it if it fits their pre-existing agend.

DTO Luv wrote:Downtown isn't the only neighborhood in the east for people to move to. I'm saying it wouldn't be very appealing to try to cram a family of 5-6 in a condo. They could get a house in Dundee or Midtown or South Omaha just as easy as out west.

And hope they have a decent amount of money set aside for repairs that naturally come with owning older houses (which not that many have). We liked a nice house in Westgate, but did not get it because it would have needed a good $10,000-15,000 in work in the next 5 or so years.

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 8:52 pm

joeglow wrote:
DTO Luv wrote:I guess I don't see schools being a major concern for people looking to move DT. I think alot of people who move to the suburbs are looking only for the 'best' schools. I think they also want to distance themselves from minorities and diversity. .

You admit that we need need to bring things like shopping downtown to attract people, but have no desire to bring more good schools downtown to attract families. The blatant hypocrisy is amazing. It is almost as if the people who love diversity only love it if it fits their pre-existing agend.

I'm not totally trying to discount families in DT living. It's obvious though that an overwelming majortiy of people living DT (in any city) are singles or couples without children. Schools aren't going to be as high a priority to them. They don't have kids to worry about. The minority of those that do have kids aren't going to be enough to require multiple schools. At this point I think it is more important to bring in amenities important to singles and childless couples. Schools would be fine but it's like trying to sell a deep freeze to an Eskimo.

Uffda · Post by **Uffda** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:13 pm

But isnt Little Italy and the Giovanni aiming their buildings toward families..... or supposedly anyway?

joeglow · Post by **joeglow** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:25 pm

DTO Luv wrote:
joeglow wrote:
DTO Luv wrote:I guess I don't see schools being a major concern for people looking to move DT. I think alot of people who move to the suburbs are looking only for the 'best' schools. I think they also want to distance themselves from minorities and diversity. .

You admit that we need need to bring things like shopping downtown to attract people, but have no desire to bring more good schools downtown to attract families. The blatant hypocrisy is amazing. It is almost as if the people who love diversity only love it if it fits their pre-existing agend.
I'm not totally trying to discount families in DT living. It's obvious though that an overwelming majortiy of people living DT (in any city) are singles or couples without children. Schools aren't going to be as high a priority to them. They don't have kids to worry about. The minority of those that do have kids aren't going to be enough to require multiple schools. At this point I think it is more important to bring in amenities important to singles and childless couples. Schools would be fine but it's like trying to sell a deep freeze to an Eskimo.

-That, I will agree with. However, like I said, it is not always possible to move into an older neighborhood (as odd as that seems). Like I said earlier, when we were looking at houses, we could get an older house for $95,000 and spend 10k-15k in repairs or buy a house for $110,000 with little expected repairs much further out west. Being as we did not have a lot of cash, it was much easier to get the more expense house because we were able to finance the whole amount and pay it off over 30 years (as opposed to having to come up with cash for repairs or, at best, have to pay it off over a few year at a higher interest rate). All that said, I think there COULD be a market for families that want to be closer to downtown, but cannot the maintenance of an older home.

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:31 pm

You make it sound like every home is a dump. I'll admit that there are some that need work but not to the point of having so much work to discount moving there.

joeglow · Post by **joeglow** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:15 pm

DTO Luv wrote:You make it sound like every home is a dump. I'll admit that there are some that need work but not to the point of having so much work to discount moving there.

No. But they are harder to find. Roofs get old. Siding gets old. Decks get old. Appliances (air conditioning, heater, water heater, etc.) get old. Plumbing and electrical are older. Older houses tend to have more dated woodwork, windows, carpeting, window coverings, lighting, etc.

The simple fact is that if we wanted a rickety deck, 1960's style DARK (and I mean DARK) woodwork, etc. we would have gotten the house in Westgate. However, it was not what I wanted and I did not want to sink money that I did not have into the house (NOTE: I had NO problem with the area, it was simply the style of the interior).

Uffda · Post by **Uffda** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:19 pm

Looks like in the past - people thought downtown would be a great place for families to ive.

we live in the 3-bedroom unit on Leavenworth. stop down anytime.

my wife and i love it. so too does my 2.5 year old son. the migration is starting. slowly but surely more families will move down here. we left the burbs and obviously prefer the urban lifestyle. it's certainly not for every family, but there are some huge perks.

like being able to walk to the library. being able to walk to the park. proximity of bike trails. close to zoo, children's museum, and Qwest. but perhaps the biggest up side is the commute time. gone are the days of the 45 minute commute, each way to and from West Omaha. it's all about time. and my wife and i would rather spend it together as a family than in the car.

i am very much looking forward to raising a family down here.

http://eomahaforums.com/phpBB/viewtopic ... 65&start=0

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:24 pm

Without even looking I know who said that. He lives in Soma which is a bit more house like than a apartment type condo.

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:45 pm

Not only is Central an awesome school they have the new Liberty elementary school for folks looking to start a family. People need to realize what is urban living. it seams there is still a strong majority around here that think millard is the superior choice. Quite a naive decision. But i guess if you have that type of mentality then we pry dont want you east of 72nd

joeglow · Post by **joeglow** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:51 pm

MTO wrote:Not only is Central an awesome school they have the new Liberty elementary school for folks looking to start a family. People need to realize what is urban living. it seams there is still a strong majority around here that think millard is the superior choice. Quite a naive decision. But i guess if you have that type of mentality then we pry dont want you east of 72nd

Again, people downtown are on their high horse. Millard is a superior choice for some and downtown is a superior choice for others. Calling one or the other naive is flat out arrogance AND ignorance.

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:55 pm

True Miilard is a better choice for some, some like Ol' Huston. However the mentality associated with the suburbs is not a high horse one? Think again.

adam186 · Post by **adam186** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:01 pm

Let me put this to sleep. Everyone has there own preferences and their own reasons. It shouldn't matter where they live as long as it's still in Omaha. I'm all for people moving downtown, but I don't think we need to force them and knock them down for doing so. We all have reasons for doing what we do. There is nothing wrong with living out west, midtown, downtown, etc.

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:02 pm

Good point. *As long as they stay in Omaha. Agree

joeglow · Post by **joeglow** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:25 pm

MTO wrote:True Miilard is a better choice for some, some like Ol' Huston. However the mentality associated with the suburbs is not a high horse one? Think again.

You manage to do it once again in your next post. North Omaha is a bunch of gang members shooting each other. South Omaha is a bunch of people who can't speak English.

I think we all agree those are idiotic assumptions (JUST like saying Millard, as a whole, is on their high horse). Obviously, there are idiots in both places. I have met just as many people living downtown who feel their are superior for doing that. But, apparently, you don't think that is wrong, because you live downtown.

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:14 am

i speak in general because there are exceptions for every case. If I covered all bases it would take all day. And majority does rule.

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:18 am

joeglow wrote: I have met just as many people living downtown who feel their are superior for doing that. But, apparently, you don't think that is wrong, because you live downtown.

He doesn't live Downtown. He's in Midtown.

Not everyones perfect. ;)

joeglow · Post by **joeglow** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:45 am

MTO wrote:i speak in general because there are exceptions for every case. If I covered all bases it would take all day. And majority does rule.

I am trying to be as rational as possible. Show me statistics that the majority of people in Millard are on their high horse.

Look at the number of people on here who live downtown (or midtown)who basically look down their nose at those living out West. I would never be so presumptious as to say "the majority in downtown and midtown are on their high horse."

Basically, I am in agreement with Adam that the majority of people in Omaha (EVERY part) are good people. You, on the other hand, don't like people making stereotypes about North Omaha, South Omaha, Midtown, downtown, etc. However, you more than quick to throw out accusations based on NO statisitical fact other than your own opinion.

I am through banging my head against the wall. I will sit in my West Omaha home and say that there are good and bad people in every part of Omaha. You sit in your Midtown home and throw out stereotypes about certain areas of Omaha. That says A LOT more about each side that I ever could.

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:56 am

Because I'm used to dealing with decades and decades of thinking of east Omaha as dirty dangerous and not good enough for your family. Im not trying to say that there isnt a stereo type of downtown more what I am saying is its not correct.\
You know D'Sawn I realized the other day that I still hang out more downtown then you do. You should get out once in a while and enjoy the people not just stay 9 floors up and look at the view.

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:59 am

I'm busy. It's not like I can go out when ever I want. I have a house to clean, laundry to do, food to cook, a car to fix, it's not like I can run out to the OM or where ever and do what I want.

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:02 am

O don't give me that. I know it may be scare right down there but just run real fast to the east and it'll all be ok.

Finn · Post by **Finn** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:09 am

And majority does rule.

Well, if this is true, the suburbs pretty much rule over the urban core in any city

I don't know why people can't just accept that people have different choices without making it personal or right/wrong! The last time I was in town I drove through Linden Estates. That sure looked like a nice place to live - and I would love to live in one of those beautiful homes. The fact that it isn't urban doesn't mean that I don't like the urban core, that I am prejudiced against minorities or that I am elitist. The fact is that more Americans want a single-family home and a yard. You don't have to be in that group - but you don't have to knock it either.

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:12 am

Nope don't have a problem with the people only the prejudice of my neighborhood is dirty and the schools around here are inferior.

joeglow · Post by **joeglow** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:48 am

MTO wrote:Nope don't have a problem with the people only the prejudice of my neighborhood is dirty and the schools around here are inferior.

And what better way to show that than to say those who think living out west is better are naive and "the mentality associated with the suburbs is not a high horse one? Think again."

Thus, hopefully you can rationally look at this and see you are a bit hypocritical for complaining about people bashing your neighborhood based on stereotypes and then doing the EXACT SAME THING for other parts of the city.

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:56 am

No there are not to many condos downtown or even in midtown.

GaryFL · Post by **GaryFL** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:25 am

Related note: in my long-running plan to relocate to DTO, I've noticed that downtown rents seem to be going up. When I first checked a year and a half ago, there were a lot of very affordable places. Now, something like $700/mo. rent for a 1-1 at the Ford Warehouse is the low end of the scale.

I know I'm talking about rent, and not buying, but wouldn't this suggest a higher demand for downtown units?

Post by **Omaha Cowboy** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:04 am

(My reaction to the dialog contained in this thread..

adam186 wrote:Let me put this to sleep. Everyone has there own preferences and their own reasons. It shouldn't matter where they live as long as it's still in Omaha. I'm all for people moving downtown, but I don't think we need to force them and knock them down for doing so. We all have reasons for doing what we do. There is nothing wrong with living out west, midtown, downtown, etc.

Amen adam..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace[/quote]

Big E · Post by **Big E** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:47 pm

GaryFL wrote:Related note: in my long-running plan to relocate to DTO, I've noticed that downtown rents seem to be going up. When I first checked a year and a half ago, there were a lot of very affordable places. Now, something like $700/mo. rent for a 1-1 at the Ford Warehouse is the low end of the scale.

I know I'm talking about rent, and not buying, but wouldn't this suggest a higher demand for downtown units?

This simply reflects higher interest rates. You can set your watch to it historically. As interest rates go up, purchasing power goes down, and rental demand goes up. You couldn't pay someone to rent four years ago.

-Big E

cdub · Post by **cdub** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:15 pm

There also may be fewer rentals available. A lot of them have turned over to condos over the last several years. Fewer units available raises prices even if demand is the same.

j4nu · Post by **j4nu** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:47 pm

Speaking as someone who just recently was in the rentall market, I agree that prices are a little up, at least for the one bedroom units. There seems to be very few one bedroom units available and this may be a indicator as to why prices are up on those units. Simple supply and demand. However, from what I experienced, there were some deals to be had on 2 bedroom units.

MTO · Post by **MTO** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:06 pm

I think speculation by the realtors has something to do with it too.

Big E · Post by **Big E** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:10 pm

cdub wrote:There also may be fewer rentals available. A lot of them have turned over to condos over the last several years. Fewer units available raises prices even if demand is the same.

That's valid vs a few years ago, but to my knowledge, in the last 18 months (as was compared above) there have been few (if any?) conversions away from apartments to condos.

But yes, supply and demand is the basis of the issue here.

-Big E