Official: Omaha Light Rail Discussion

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Big E
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Post by Big E »

CapitalGuy wrote:And as far as the 3 acre McMansions, they may ruin the country in your eyes, but they also are the people paying for your downtown baseball stadium, Qwest Center, and eventually the light rail that the very people that despise them will use. I know it is a hard-hitting admission, but ain't that America?
Interesting that we already had mass transit until all those great people created/moved to the suburbs and basically destroyed almost every city in the country in the process.

Yes, please tell me where I can kiss all of their butts and thank them for how wonderful they've made my life.

-Big E
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OmahaJaysCU
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Post by OmahaJaysCU »

I really don't like this. It's called alternative transportation people. The WDE left 0 room for mass transit, this will do the exact same thing. Honestly, if this happens, we can kiss the dream of a city wide mass transit system goodbye. The Dodge Street corridor would be absolutely crucial in any city wide system.
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Post by the1wags »

I agree with your main point but disagree that Dodge would be needed for a city wide light rail system. Dodge is one of the most ped UN friendly streets we have. I think there are a lot better choices for light rail routes.
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Post by Andrew »

Big E wrote:
CapitalGuy wrote:And as far as the 3 acre McMansions, they may ruin the country in your eyes, but they also are the people paying for your downtown baseball stadium, Qwest Center, and eventually the light rail that the very people that despise them will use. I know it is a hard-hitting admission, but ain't that America?
Interesting that we already had mass transit until all those great people created/moved to the suburbs and basically destroyed almost every city in the country in the process.

Yes, please tell me where I can kiss all of their butts and thank them for how wonderful they've made my life.

-Big E
You're assuming everyone that lives in the suburbs makes a daily cross country journey to downtown. I myself as well as others I'm sure live in far west O and rarely ever make it east of 680; in general everything I need is west of 156th.
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Big E
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Post by Big E »

Andrew wrote:You're assuming everyone that lives in the suburbs makes a daily cross country journey to downtown. I myself as well as others I'm sure live in far west O and rarely ever make it east of 680; in general everything I need is west of 156th.
No, I'm not. I know that EVERYONE in the suburbs has to drive a car EVERYWHERE they go. Couple that with the philosophy around here that the solution to traffic congestion is to make it possible to bring MORE traffic to the same area. It's a cycle that feeds itself, and the braintrust in charge around here can't even remotely get that into their heads, because the braintrust that votes them into their offices wouldn't know how to live if they couldn't drive their cars EVERYWHERE they go.

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nativeomahan
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Post by nativeomahan »

Big E wrote:
Andrew wrote:You're assuming everyone that lives in the suburbs makes a daily cross country journey to downtown. I myself as well as others I'm sure live in far west O and rarely ever make it east of 680; in general everything I need is west of 156th.
No, I'm not. I know that EVERYONE in the suburbs has to drive a car EVERYWHERE they go. Couple that with the philosophy around here that the solution to traffic congestion is to make it possible to bring MORE traffic to the same area. It's a cycle that feeds itself, and the braintrust in charge around here can't even remotely get that into their heads, because the braintrust that votes them into their offices wouldn't know how to live if they couldn't drive their cars EVERYWHERE they go.

-Big E
Amen, brother!

I just got back from a week in Boston, and used public transportation or my feet to take me everywhere I went, including journeys of over 10 miles for a mere $2 on the subway.

A walkable city is much preferable on about every level you can think of to one designed around the internal combustion engine. Not to mention more attractive!
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Post by Andrew »

So do you think if everyone packed into east of 50th & dodge there wouldn't be a need for cars? Some might be used to urban life and see no reason to have a car but most without a car would be crippled. You have kids? You want to bring something more than a sack of groceries with you somewhere? Don't want to walk five blocks in negative wind chills or freezing rain? With modern technology and resources available the same thing will happen everywhere until you either run out of room, fuel, or money.
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OmahaJaysCU
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Post by OmahaJaysCU »

Andrew wrote:So do you think if everyone packed into east of 50th & dodge there wouldn't be a need for cars? Some might be used to urban life and see no reason to have a car but most without a car would be crippled. You have kids? You want to bring something more than a sack of groceries with you somewhere? Don't want to walk five blocks in negative wind chills or freezing rain? With modern technology and resources available the same thing will happen everywhere until you either run out of room, fuel, or money.
That's where the mass transit comes in. What does having kids have anything to do with it? Kids were raised in urban environments for centuries, what difference does it make?
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Post by DTO Luv »

Think of the children! Someone please think of the children!!!

I remember growing up (I'm only 21) and we had periods of not having a car in Omaha. We were fortunate enough to live east where we could walk to a grocery store (probably every other day and it wasn't a big deal) and get around decent enough on the buses. It was trips that were further west that were problematic because they weren't built for public transportation.

I'm not saying you have to cram everyone in east of 72nd (although it would be nice) but we still should be looking forward towards actual solutions and not keep repeating the same mistakes over again. Don't they say that doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results is insanity? Well that's what this seems to be on Dodge. Insanity.
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Post by midtown charlie »

And as far as the 3 acre McMansions, they may ruin the country in your eyes, but they also are the people paying for your downtown baseball stadium, Qwest Center, and eventually the light rail that the very people that despise them will use. I know it is a hard-hitting admission, but ain't that America?
Are they....maybe only because there are so many of them. As the saying goes I guess we make it up on the quantity. I'd like to see the comparisons between a family making say 40K in the burbs and $40k in the urban area. Which family is more cost effective to serve for the city. I bet we all know the answer. Suburb design is the biggest pork project in the country. Imagine what we could afford to build with our tax dollars if Omaha had been built in a smarter fashion. I don't think anyone has the allusion that we are going to eliminate the auto but for once it would be nice if it was as convenient to walk in Omaha as it is to drive. Heck I would take even 1/2 as convenient. Just try and imagine walking from an old mill office to Westroads or even Regency over lunch or even at all. (how far apart are they really) Now picture that in winter. Ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!
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Post by Hellenistic Kshatriya »

ugh.. please no. light rail would be nice. and WDE didn't ruin the posibility of light rail on dodge at all... now it'd take time to rebuild that area but there is plenty of room to run light rail.
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Post by Rocan »

I've read through the comments so far on this and I think some are being a little short-sighted here. Asking someone to give up their vehicle, or accusing them of being some evil being for driving a car, isn't going to solve any problems. At the same time, degrading a major metro architectural symbol that is being built over the Missouri and connecting hundreds of miles of bike/walking trails (paid for with Federal money that would have gone elsewhere) isn't helping either.

I completely agree that some form of mass-transit is going to be necessary (sooner than later) as Omaha continues to grow. But I think what makes a metro area a great one, in terms of transportation, is the value of choice. Currently Omaha does not offer mass transit in any form, and that hurts it. And it will only continue to hurt it more as time goes on when comparing it to other metros that are adding them each year. But when it does get built in Omaha (and I'm convinced that it will be), you can still drive your vehicle from the suburbs to a concert at the Qwest, or bike over the Missouri from C. Bluffs to see it, or ride the rails to downtown for it as well. It's about choice, there's no one solution for all to follow.

So while it might pain some to see West Dodge being widened, do keep in mind that it is meant to improve current traffic flow (although we can agree that it is not a long term solution by itself). And while it may pain some to see $20 million spent on a bridge, do know that it will be heavily used by locals and guests alike for transportation, sightseeing and exercise. And finally, know that just because West Dodge is being widened does not mean that the hope of having a mass transit system in the metro has gone way. But it will take leadership, perhaps from some of you on this board to get this done. And from some of the posts I have read, it sounds like some of you are already active in this.

So let's stop the bickering, because to use a lame transportation analogy, it gets us nowhere fast.

Wow, that was the lamest ending I've ever written...a thousand apologies :)
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Post by CapitalGuy »

I could be wrong, but there is already a mass transit line that goes down Dodge St. And, we still have problems. I'd like the mass transit experts to tell us why we should expect any different from a light rail than we already have for buses. Also remember before you answer that the #2 is already pretty frequent in its circuits. And seriously folks, the light rail pipe dream is nice, but is it really feasible? No. We can't afford it for one. Secondly, it goes down one street. So what do I do when I get off this one-street line? "Duh, you moron, you hop on one of the buses that no one rides now, but they will when we get light rail." Yeah, I was born at night, but not last night. Keep the light rail in Sim City.
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Post by Rocan »

CapitalGuy wrote:
And seriously folks, the light rail pipe dream is nice, but is it really feasible? No. We can't afford it for one. Secondly, it goes down one street. So what do I do when I get off this one-street line? "Duh, you moron, you hop on one of the buses that no one rides now, but they will when we get light rail."



A buddy of mine and his wife live in downtown Philadelphia. He is able to walk to work, but she drives her car to a rail-line station a couple miles away and take the rail quite a distance to her workplace. My point is, as I wrote in my first post, it's important for the metro to be able to offer a choice. Nobody expects a rail line to be built on every other street, but they could follow, for example, the interstate routes across the city, and to certain landmarks as well (Eppley, Zoo, Boys Town, etc.). They can have landing points where people could bike, walk, drive, bus, etc. to get on and off. What's the value in this some might ask? Well, it would lessen the traffic coming into major areas like downtown during rush hours, help with parking issues, lessen accidents on major roads during high traffic, etc.

Will it happen overnight? No. Is it feasible? Absolutely.

Cities of similar size to Omaha have either built, or are in plans to build, such lines already (Tulsa and Albuquerque come to mind, I'm sure others can pipe in with more examples). It will be a challenge, no doubt, but I'm pretty sure there were those whose jaws dropped 60 years ago at the thought of an interstate freeway system being built throughout all 48 states as well. It didn't happen overnight, but it can happen.

As for being able to afford such a system, it will simply take some effort from the right public/private entities. They've managed to spend hundreds of millions of dollars already on the interstate system in Omaha alone, so resources are there. Maybe the rails become a part of a state entity like NDOR? That might help it get the needed funding. I don't know, it's just a thought.

I know here in Lincoln, the Antelope Creek project (who would have thought that would have ever been able to occur) is taking place due to federal and state money with cooperation from some pretty big players (UNL, city of Lincoln, NDOR, etc.). So my point is I have all the confidence that it is feasible if the right people want it bad enough.

And lastly, in regards to a line that is already in Omaha, that doesn't ring a bell (I could be wrong though). I'm sure someone on the board will be able to answer that though.
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Post by ricko »

The issue of affordability is a legitimate one, but I also think we have to look at the long-term issues involved and how we want to build our cities in the future. I wouldn't expect most of you to remember the debate in the 60's and 70's over the "West Dodge Freeway" plan. There was a heated debate over whether or not to build an 'interstate highway' sized freeway to replace Dodge street. It nearly happened. The 'eminent domain' right of way for this proposed project would have wiped out entire neighborhoods from downtown to the Westroads (virtually destroying everything on the north side of Dodge St. and a couple of blocks to the north of Dodge). Can you Imagine how butt-ugly that whole swath of town would look with a flippin' freeway slicing through what's probably one of the nicest parts of the city----ugh (no more 'frisbee golf' in Memorial Park). Luckily, those who opposed the highway won the day, but it was a long fight.

This points up the larger issue of just how we want to spend our federal/state/local transportation dollars. All forms of transportation are subsidized heavily by tax dollars in one way or another. I have nothing against building highways, we need them. The interstate highway system is the largest and most expensive public works project in the history of the world, and it's a majestic achievement. I remember when it was being built through Omaha in the 60's and the excitement that I felt over it's 'modernity'.

The construction of a first rate highway system did, though, create our 'over-dependence' on the automobile. Well, that and major auto manufacturers buying up and dismantling urban streetcar systems in the 40's and 50's so that the busses they manufactured wouldn't have to compete with streetcars---it's all documented.

I think it's time, though, to seriously consider other forms of transportation as part of the mix. Light rail is part of that mix. The Dodge Street corridor would be a perfect place for it (among others). It's not that the money isn't there; cripes, we spend a gazillion dollars to not only build, but to maintain our highways and roads, and I don't think it would kill us to spend some tax dollars on light rail---the money is already there, it's all about how we , as a society, want to allocate those dollars. Hey, I like my car, it gives me the freedom to go wherever I want on a system of roads that is second to none in the world, but when I want to go into the city (D.C.), I take a feeder bus (for a buck) to the Metro (subway) and I don't have to worry about parking (expensive and sometimes scary), and---I---walk (gasp!).

Fixed rail systems also tend to spur development of all kinds, and in the long run I think it will lessen our dependence on cars. I've seen it happen here. Even people in the inner suburbs are able to live without cars if they choose. Living, office, and retail space are clustered around several metro stations. Many people choose where to live now based on their proximity to public transportation. It's a mentality that is hard to describe to younger relatives in Omaha, but I remember when taking public transportation was the norm for the middle-class if they worked or played downtown (between 50 and 60 thousand people worked in DTO until the 70's, and parking was a major issue). Public transportation wasn't just for poor people and immigrants. The biggest challenge for light rail in Omaha (and I do believe it will happen) will be to convince a population used to commuting by car (especially when you live in a society where teenagers expect their parents to buy a car for them as soon as they're street-legal).

I truly believe in the dictum "If you build it, they will come". It might take a while, like it did here, but I've seen the subway system go from a novelty/curio to the second busiest in the country.
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Post by omaja »

CapitalGuy wrote:I could be wrong, but there is already a mass transit line that goes down Dodge St. And, we still have problems. I'd like the mass transit experts to tell us why we should expect any different from a light rail than we already have for buses. Also remember before you answer that the #2 is already pretty frequent in its circuits. And seriously folks, the light rail pipe dream is nice, but is it really feasible? No. We can't afford it for one. Secondly, it goes down one street. So what do I do when I get off this one-street line? "Duh, you moron, you hop on one of the buses that no one rides now, but they will when we get light rail." Yeah, I was born at night, but not last night. Keep the light rail in Sim City.
I don't understand all the negativity! The precedent has already been set across the country with light rail in cities like Albuquerque, Boston, Denver, Los Angeles, Portland, Saint Louis, San Diego, and a whole slew of others. Even car-infested Phoenix is set to open a light rail line in the near future.

It has been said over and over again that light rail DOES attract higher ridership as opposed to buses (just look at the successes of light rail introduction in many cities, compared with buses). The reason? Buses carry the stigma of being the transport method of lower-income people. This is especially prevalent in Omaha where the buses are seen as a nuisance to other drivers and a waste of money, among other things. Not to mention MAT has made no real effort to make buses widely available to all parts of the metro. And on top of that, most people who own a car would never be caught dead on a MAT bus, as a general rule.

If we can afford to keep throwing dollars at the bottomless pit of road construction, we most definitely can afford to at least see if light rail will work in Omaha. How many more lanes can be added to Dodge? It is already eight lanes at 90th Street and there comes a certain point where additional lanes will not actually increase working capacity. The optimum number of lanes for a freeway is three or four per direction, and I imagine a similar number would be said for surface roads. Adding another lane to Dodge will allow more traffic to pass through the 72nd-90th corridor only to produce a larger backup at 90th. Widen 90th and Dodge? Okay, fine. Now the cascading effect will push further west and all of Dodge will need to be made eight lanes. See where this is going? The whole thing is illogical.

A light rail line along the Dodge corridor would be the first of an entire system. Cities don't just build one line and call it quits. Look at any major, developed city across the world and you will undoubtedly find a metro/light rail system in place. This system doesn't take over the role of freeways and surface roads, it compliments them. Is it feasible in Omaha? Most certainly. I think light rail could become the new Qwest Center. People said that the Qwest was a waste of money, that it would be a burden on the city forever, and that Omaha had no use for it with the perfectly good Civic a few blocks away. Those naysayers are most probably eating their words now, aren't they? While attending a concert at the Qwest, no doubt.

(As a side note, I suppose I wouldn't be entirely against widening Dodge. The condition being that a bus or HOV lane is constructed in place of a normal-use lane. That way, the inner lanes of Dodge could easily be converted into light rail right-of-way when Omaha decides to get its act together.)
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Post by omahastylee459 »

There is no reason to add more lanes to Dodge, but the lights and some intersections need to be reworked. This is especially true around 90th. Have you ever tried driving North on 90th towards Dodge during rush hour? It is absolutely horrible. There are so many commuters leaving their office buildings and the left turn lights are not nearly long enough onto dodge. Mass transit is always an answer to traffic congestion, but in this suburban area its only a pipe dream. A lot of the people that work in those offices live at 180th and beyond, so taking a bus is not an option. If we want mass transit to be more feasible in the suburban areas we need to tear down everything west of 72nd and start over, and if you cant recognize that then you need to open your eyes!
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Post by omaja »

That is where a park and ride lot at Village Pointe would come in handy. Having people ride the metro until 168th will siphon off a lot of that short commuting traffic which clogs Dodge. Also, taking the bus would be an option if the bus were a convenient way of getting to work; as it stands, MAT barely reaches the 120th and Dodge area, let alone 180th.

Surprisingly, I have actually seen people use the Millard Express line from 156th and Q. The trouble with this is that there is little flexibility; it only operates during the morning and evening rush hours, and with a limited schedule at that. More service would most likely entice more riders. I don't even think MAT has tried, so saying that the bus isn't an option doesn't really fly when West Omaha hasn't been given an efficient and expansive route system to begin with. I too, like ricko, believe in "if you build it, they will come." Prior to the Millard Express, I doubt anyone would have though that it would be used at all, but it is. Give suburbanites the chance and they might react a little differently. It doesn't hurt to try, especially with people becoming more and more conscious of gas prices.
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Big E
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Post by Big E »

omahastylee459 wrote:If we want mass transit to be more feasible in the suburban areas we need to tear down everything west of 72nd and start over
Good start, light rail or not. :;):

Light rail down Dodge with park 'n' rides at/near VP, Boys Town, Westroads, Methodist, Crossroads, UNO, and Mutual. Then starting at Mutual you get around mid and downtown via the streetcar. It's such an obvious no-brainer for long term transportation. But dear God won't somebody please think of the children.

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Post by Andrew »

Look I just can't see in this day and age people with kids and the lifestyle they live are going to use a mass transit system to take their 2 or 3 kids anywhere when they have their own cars to go from point to point. That's my point about kids, deal with the reality that parents aren't going to go for that. Maybe that's foreign to some urban dwellers here used to walking around downtown and maybe it's not the most resource conservative means of transportation but the majority are not resource conservative these days. You're not going to force people to do anything they don't want. That also goes for lugging around 4 bags of groceries or the 2x4s they just bought at the hardware store through the bus or even walking 4 blocks out of their way to work from the transport depot. So cease with the ideas that certain things would work if people might do things a certain way and stick to things that would work if people would likely do them a certain way. Convenience is unfortunately the key and at this point in time extra lanes on Dodge will get used.
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Post by almighty_tuna »

Sure, I wouldn't take a train to get to the grocery store or to retrieve sheets of drywall from Home Depot. But I'd find it pretty damn convenient if I could get on a light rail stop at Westroads to get my daugher and I to Gallup downtown every day, or out to VP, or anywhere else the train would go. Criminy - I would LOVE a park and ride at I-80 & L. *wistful sigh*
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Post by Brad »

Lets get one thing straight.... The Lightrail WOULD NOT replace the car, it would be for the daily commute or a night downtown. I believe that everyone will still have a car that currently has one, just not using it as much.
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Post by DTO Luv »

I don't think anyone thinks that cars would be replaced. But some people would be able to make it car free.
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Post by Brad »

Well people are freaking out about how to get to the home depot and such?
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Post by CapitalGuy »

And still no one answers my question: How is light rail on Dodge going to be any different than they already established MAT #2 line?
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Post by Big E »

the1wags wrote:Again for the record, I think Dodge is a horrible corridor for a light rail line. Too much traffic. Not ped friendly at all. Center and Maple would be way better IMO.
Keep in mind that ANY mass transit west of Midtown (maybe UNO) isn't going to be worth a damn for anything other than park 'n' rides and to hopefully spur some more dense pedestrian development. They would need to anchored by existing infrastructure, such as the malls. I would even make the suggestion that any light rail stop EAST of the Crossroads (maybe UNO or Mutual) and other than one downtown would be a waste. The more dense areas down there should be serviced by the streetcar or buses.

As far as people not liking buses: if you put a big horseshoe on the side and call it a shuttle they seem to be just freaking fine with it.

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Post by omaja »

Dodge might not be pedestrian friendly right now (honestly, I would fear for my life trying to cross the 90th and Dodge intersection!), but if light rail were constructed it would become much more pedestrian friendly. Just think: eliminating the inner two lanes of Dodge where it is eight lanes for light rail would cut down car capacity and slapping a 35 mph speed limit on Dodge from 90th to 72nd would make the area perfect for Omaha by Design's vision of the Crossroads area to come to life. West of the Westroads, the line would transition into the median or the shoulder of a freeway, a design that has been used successfully in both Denver and Portland.

I'd like to think of Omaha's light rail network sort of as a reverse Boston Green Line. In Boston, the Green Line traverses the downtown area underground, functioning just as a metro would with fast speeds and quick service. Further west, it splits into four branches. Three of these branches run along city streets alongside (but separated from) car traffic. In Omaha, the idea would be the opposite: the suburbs would receive the less-frequently-placed stations, equipped with park-and-ride lots. It would transition into a streetcar with more frequent stops the further east and closer to downtown it gets. The best of both worlds without sacrificing connectivity or service.

My vision for a line on Dodge:
Image
The stations in yellow would be park-and-ride locations. The line would use part of the already-planned streetcar's loop around the Downtown/Old Market area.

If that doesn't sound more attractive than widening Dodge, I give up. :;): If Omahans saw a rendering of what a possible light rail network would look like in the OWH, I think most would jump on board, especially if the economic benefits were discussed in comparison to the temporary fix of adding more lanes.

Edit: Oh, and another MAJOR difference between light rail and MAT Line 2 is that unlike the bus, this line would actually serve West Omaha. Line 2 stops at Westroads. How do you expect someone on 180th Street to even think of using mass transit when the nearest bus stop is over six miles away?
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Post by the1wags »

No offense but building light rail on Dodge west of I680 is really crazy. Especially so west of 120th as it is basically controlled access interstate. Not gonna happen. I'll go into a city wide plan of sorts in a different thread. Back to widening Dodge. :barf:
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Post by omaja »

Like I said, it has been done before, and to much success.

Portland's MAX Blue Line runs along I-84 between I-5 and I-205, continuing further east into the suburb of Gresham. Denver's E-F-G-H lines run along I-25 to the Lone Tree area south of the C-470 beltway. Boston's T Red Line runs along I-93 to the southern suburb of Braintree. I am sure there are others.

Widening Dodge from 72nd to 93rd Street brings with it the implication that the freeway west of I-680 will need to be widened (much) sooner rather than later. Why is building light rail along the corridor crazy? It isn't as though there is no precedent for rail along a freeway--let alone rail which serves very suburban areas of cities. Light rail along Center or Pacific makes less sense because the traffic lights would slow it down tremendously. Not to mention there would be no dedicated right-of-way available. It would take forever to get anywhere. West Omaha doesn't need a large, dense network of stops, just key locations. Dodge provides those locations without the unnecessary addition of lights and car traffic.
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Post by the1wags »

That would work. I was going with the assumption that people were talking about light rail ON Dodge. Along side would work fine, though I still support commuter rail with HUGE park and rides at Oakview and Elkhorn utilizing the UP tracks for west O.
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Official: Omaha Light Rail Discussion

Post by Swift »

You guys....if you have kids then |expletive| drive a car. You'll get to your destination a lot faster because people who don't have kids will be riding LRT. It's not like if Omaha gets LRT they're going to outlaw cars.

The LRT is bad for people who have kids argument is completely unfounded.
CapitalGuy
Human Relations
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Official: Omaha Light Rail Discussion

Post by CapitalGuy »

Well, we can't raise the gas taxes because that would just fuel the vicious cycle that is ruining America: widening and maintaining streets in an effort to encourage progress. OH THE HORROR. I really think it is better that we let our bridges deteriorate. If more bridges collapse, people will surely become too scared to use roads and this will push them to used mass transit. Such a result would certainly be an improvement for America. :roll:
the1wags
County Board
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Official: Omaha Light Rail Discussion

Post by the1wags »

:roll:

"widening and maintaining streets in an effort to encourage progress"

Maintaining streets is all good and well, but widening roads is not progress. Is Houston's 20 lane interstates progress? I think not.
CapitalGuy
Human Relations
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Official: Omaha Light Rail Discussion

Post by CapitalGuy »

Maintaining streets is all good and well, but widening roads is not progress. Is Houston's 20 lane interstates progress? I think not.
Wags, this quote sums up this board better than any I have seen. On this board, if you are not in line with one person's or better yet a relatively small subset of the nation's population's opinion or definition of something you are wrong. Wags and other posters are of the opinion that widening streets is not progress, so it must be that widening streets is not progress. What is even odder about it is the Wags and company definition of progress includes relegating individuals in a free market society to a more expensive transportation system and development pattern. How something that costs more, subsequently making development more expensive and less feasible, is progressive in nature seems illogical. This definition restricts economic growth. In case you forgot, economic growth is what makes a city more vibrant and wealthy.
the1wags
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Official: Omaha Light Rail Discussion

Post by the1wags »

"How do you know what the benefits of light rail would be? Can you say "complete speculation"?"

You've got to be joking or completely clueless.
CapitalGuy
Human Relations
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Official: Omaha Light Rail Discussion

Post by CapitalGuy »

Has anyone ever done a study (other than a group that has a stake in light rail) that has shown that light rail would bring more ($) benefits than ($) costs.
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Brad
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Official: Omaha Light Rail Discussion

Post by Brad »

Here is my study:

I went to Denver, rode the light rail and like it!

I went to Dallas, rode the light rail and like it!
Andrew
Home Owners Association
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Official: Omaha Light Rail Discussion

Post by Andrew »

Is Omaha's population dense enough to support a light rail? Seems construction costs would be a very minimum of $15 mil/mile with potential costs much higher than that. How far west would it be feasible to go? Are there enough worthy destination stops to keep travel capacities high? What are the fares for the typical rail in some of these other cities?
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Brad
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Official: Omaha Light Rail Discussion

Post by Brad »

Denver Had park and rides which I liked. I drove from my hotel quite a ways to Caboose Hobbies. After leaving there I drove right down the street to the park and ride, hoped on the train and headed to downtown where I spent the day and then took the train back to my car and drove back.

Image
DTO Luv
City Council
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Official: Omaha Light Rail Discussion

Post by DTO Luv »

CapitalGuy wrote:the automobile has been a major factor in developing the greatest industrial and economic power the world has ever seen. And that is pretty darn important.
And it's a big part of what is slowly bringing this super power down to it's knees.