Crossroads Mall Discussion

thenewguy · Post by **thenewguy** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:08 am

jeezuz.

NDizona · Post by **NDizona** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:02 am

I never took the design seriously really until now. It was nice fantasy but 72nd street truly has lost its identity. When something major happens - thats where people go - other than that its just part of rush hour traffic.

UNO

Nebraska Furniture Mart

80 Dodge

Memorial Park, Elmwood Park

Fair Acres (When we were looking to move my wife was driving in this neighborhood and found a house that she loved....she drags me out there and shows me the house - after I am done laughing I explain to her that it is at least $500,000. She of course didnt believe me - she found out I was right and we promptly moved out to east Lincoln - 190th and Q)

Maybe we should be looking at this a little closer. I will say this - nothing will happen with Crossroads unless the city gets involved. Family Fun Center's time has come and went - its a good time for them to move on. I am sure failure of the mall has effected them.

This plan is needs to scaled down but I like the concept.

Omababe · Post by **Omababe** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:11 am

NDizona wrote:Fair Acres (When we were looking to move my wife was driving in this neighborhood and found a house that she loved....she drags me out there and shows me the house - after I am done laughing I explain to her that it is at least $500,000.

This is one thing that kinda puzzles me WRT the decline of the Crossroads.

Crossroads is the closest mall to some very affluent areas, like the one you mention, plus the posh Dundee area and even the Gold Coast and Bemis Park districts.

I'm also thinking of some venerable castles up there on south 90th. (or is it north 90th. in that area?) but those are really between Crossroads and Westroads. Maybe I've answered my own question here -- maybe the well-to-do in the areas I've mentioned drive a bit farther and just do Westroads.

Oh well ...

joeglow · Post by **joeglow** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:19 pm

Omababe wrote:Maybe I've answered my own question here -- maybe the well-to-do in the areas I've mentioned drive a bit farther and just do Westroads.

-Exactly. There is NO way Crossroads can compete with Westroads. If they are to survive, they need to find a niche all their own.

NDizona · Post by **NDizona** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:13 pm

-Exactly. There is NO way Crossroads can compete with Westroads. If they are to survive, they need to find a niche all their own.

HORSE |expletive|!

They can but management chooses to do nothing.

#1 Major renovation project - change the perception from the ghetto mall to a place people want to spend time

#2 Lower rent to attract tenants that would appeal to lower income people - if thats the direction they want to go

#3 Add office space

#4 Advertise major events

#5 Appeal to the schools - UNO, Creighton Prep, Brownell Talbot, many more... I went to UNO and no one ever talked about getting lunch at Crossroads despite UNO's crappy overpriced food.

Post by **Brad** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:49 pm

Whats your obsession with turning the mall to office space?

There are so many better options than office space.

joeglow · Post by **joeglow** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:57 pm

NDizona wrote:#1 Major renovation project - change the perception from the ghetto mall to a place people want to spend time

-Again, if it is going after the same crowds as Westroads, they will LOSE and drop a ton of money in the process.

NDizona wrote:#2 Lower rent to attract tenants that would appeal to lower income people - if thats the direction they want to go

-Which seems to be EXACTLY what I advocated.

NDizona wrote:#3 Add office space

-A different direction, but a different direction is again what I advocated.

NDizona wrote:#4 Advertise major events

What types of "major events" is going to take a mall on the verge of death to the point of thriving? I have never seen a mall live almost solely on "major events."

NDizona wrote:#5 Appeal to the schools - UNO, Creighton Prep, Brownell Talbot, many more... I went to UNO and no one ever talked about getting lunch at Crossroads despite UNO's crappy overpriced food.

-Because high school kids are the cogs that keep the economy running. Sorry, but catering to a bunch of 16-20 year olds for 1.5 hours a day, 36 weeks out of the year will NOT revolutionize the mall.

Erik · Post by **Erik** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:04 pm

I have really liked that Omaha by Design concept of 72nd and Dodge for a long time...

I really hope they build it..

Post by **Brad** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:14 pm

Why does everyone keep saying that the Crossroads can not compete with Westroads? Westroads is land locked, its not getting any bigger and there are way more stores out there that could go in to Crossroads. Heck if General Growth bought the Crossroads, they could compliment each other. May be even run shuttles between the two.

Vince Furlong · Post by **Vince Furlong** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:10 pm

Webster's and I have a pretty good idea of what a "ghetto" and a "mall" are.

But please give me a definition of "ghetto mall".

Vince Furlong
OMAHA MAIN STREETS

NDizona · Post by **NDizona** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:12 pm

Crossroads has better marketability than Westroads - its just poorly managed.

Crossroads is in a better location, has better demographics, just poor management....

Again, if it is going after the same crowds as Westroads, they will LOSE and drop a ton of money in the process.

To say it can't compete with Westroads...is silly. It CAN but it won't.

So its dumb to "drop a ton of money" at a major mall located at the virtual center of the city - the same place people go when any major event occurs...

thats just a waste!

NDizona · Post by **NDizona** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:16 pm

But please give me a definition of "ghetto mall".

Ghetto Mall
#1 >35% Vacancy
#2 People go there and spend little or no money but stay there for hours on end because they have no better place to go
#3 People that live between the ghetto mall and another mall laugh at the idea of going to the ghetto mall
#4 No problem finding a parking space
#5 Food court is a ghost town

joeglow · Post by **joeglow** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:42 pm

NDizona wrote:#2 People go there and spend little or no money but stay there for hours on end because they have no better place to go

"I see you every week in this mall. I don't like you shiftless layabouts. You're one of those ****ing mallrat kids. You don't come to the mall to shop or work. You hang out and act like you ****ing live here. Well, I have no respect for people with no shopping agenda."

Post by **nebugeater** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:44 pm

I was at a mall somewhere in Minneapolis two or three months back. Not entirely sure where, but the GPS got me there and back to find a Kohl’s to get an additional long sleeve shirt since the meeting place was like an ice box. This mall would have come close to matching what I see when I think of the Crossroads. What they had done with one old store was interesting, they had converted it to an indoor pool with swimming lessons, swimming teams and open swim time per the schedule. It was a large pool facility too. I asked one person that worked at the mall how long it had been there. They said a few years and then went on in our talk to add that it really did a nice job of drawing people to the mall. Moms and / or Dads would drop off their kids to swim and often do some shopping at the mall. In this persons opinion it had really helped the mall and I was told there were more full store fronts now than before the pool opened. Maybe this is what the crossroads needs to consider.

thenewguy · Post by **thenewguy** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:44 pm

I wonder how many times a year this actually does happen...

Brodie: Listen, not a year goes by, not a year, that I don't hear about some escalator accident involving some |expletive| kid which could have easily been avoided had some parent - I don't care which one - but some parent conditioned him to fear and respect that escalator.

Post by **Brad** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:51 am

NDizona wrote:
But please give me a definition of "ghetto mall".
Ghetto Mall
#1 >35% Vacancy
#2 People go there and spend little or no money but stay there for hours on end because they have no better place to go
#3 People that live between the ghetto mall and another mall laugh at the idea of going to the ghetto mall
#4 No problem finding a parking space
#5 Food court is a ghost town

Ghetto may be a poor choice of words...

#2 is unfair, that is any mall when school is out.

#4 is no big deal, I find a spot everywhere. but then again I don't mind a walk....

nebport5 · Post by **nebport5** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:29 am

Crossroads has better demographics? that's why its has Target and Westroads has Von Maur right?

how are you quantifying better demographics? If anything the two malls are so close together that I suspect many people drive past Crossroads to get to Westroads. Maybe you want to consider median income from the closest neighborhoods? Regency is right next to Westroads, Crossroads is right next to UNO.

Crossroads isn't hopeless but I don't see it improving without a major renovation. Not likely anytime soon given the market.

Post by **Omaha Cowboy** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:47 am

nebport5 wrote: Maybe you want to consider median income from the closest neighborhoods? Regency is right next to Westroads, Crossroads is right next to UNO.

Lets not forget Fairacres..Which is just to the west of Dundee..Warren Buffet's neighborhood..There is plenty of advanced median income within a 5 mile radius of Crossroads..The real problem, as we've discussed over there years here, centers around the lack of vision and direction for Crossroads by Simon Management..The place could become a significant retail player in Omaha once again..If it benefited from a committed plan of direction from the entity that manages the place..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

Omababe · Post by **Omababe** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:54 am

Vince Furlong wrote:But please give me a definition of "ghetto mall".

Without opening up the obvious hot-button can of worms in the definition, I think it's one of those "hard to define but you know it when you see it" things.

I've heard this and related connotations for going on two decades now. Back in ancient history, back around 1989-1990, I remember some of the students saying that some particular night (Thursday?) was "Gang Night" at the Crossroads and it would be best to stay away.

This was back when the Crossroads was, otherwise, thriving, with that upper level north wing fully populated.

No, I didn't go and check it out that night!

I did, however, notice that mall security would approach any group of kids who were wandering about the mall.

Fast forward to 2005 when there was a discussion on one of the photo boards about photo restrictions in malls. I, among others, posted some examples of those "thou shalt not do" signs, and the mall I happened to be in at the time was Crossroads. Here's the photo of the sign, ca. December 2005:

(Please pardon the reflection of the soda machine, I swear I didn't notice it when I took it.)

If you notice items 1 and 2, number 2 specifically pertains to that "ghetto" image, and, correct me if I'm wrong, I don't think it appears on similar signs in other malls. (Does it?)

But back to your question, Vince, I think a number of factors apply to this image, one being the "downscaling" of a mall, meaning such things as more Claires Accessories types of places and fewer Brodkey or Meyers places. Maybe even such things as a Target' anchor replacing a Younkers.

Another factor would be, as noted, the presence of groups of kids, particularly those of a menacing or intimidating appearance. (Yes, gangs.) I think the Crossroads does a good job of controlling this, but I have seen this in other malls in other areas.

High vacancy rate, as has been noted. Yes, in particular, high vacancy rate in the food court. (LOL! When you see those traffic-blocking kiosks start to disappear, then you KNOW the mall is in trouble!)

Incidents of crime and violence? Yes, I've heard of the occasional mugging in the parking structure. I have noticed the security truck's obvious presence when I've parked there, however. Crossroads is, however, not alone WRT incidents.

I do agree that Crossroads does have this reputation. It's hard for them to shake it! Very hard!

As to the neighborhood, I don't know of any "ghetto" in the area. The housing to the north of Crossroads is blue collar and stable, and the area is downright hoity-toity to the east. If you go west, you run into Westroads territory. Maybe that IS the problem, that Crossroads is too close to Westroads, which is really only 5 minutes or so away by car. Everybody does travel by car, right?

But as has also been said, does the management have a plan to effect a turnaround?

bbinks · Post by **bbinks** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:24 am

If my memory serves me correctly, the Omaha City Council instituted the 'No Cruising" ordinance for that stretch of Dodge Street about the same time that Crossroads had the teenager and gang loitering problems. I have to admit that I never frequented Crossroads as my parents lived closer to Westroads, so that was the convenient choice for me. However, I think the publicity of the loitering and gangs may have been the beginning of the downfall of the occupancy of the mall. The 2 remodels did not seem to draw too much attention. As a UNO student, I would go to the then full food court. That was even when the middle section had restaurant choices and not additional seating. The first Red Robin was in Crossroads, followed by (or preceded by Graffiti Eatery), then Garden Cafe, and now Chili's. Chili's is the longest lasting, but the former 3 had short stints. I can't say how much of a loss Walgreen's was, other than Barnes & Noble probably draws more traffic to that bay. I did go into the Crossroads this holiday season and have to agree that it has gone significantly downhill. Ghetto-mall, I'd say no, but definitely a run-down and poorly managed mall. When on December 18 there was no line to see Santa and 2 food court options, something is wrong. Too late for a change in on-site management, they have gone beyond failure. I don't know much about comparable lease rates, but they need to do something to attract tenants. At least the survey people did not swarm me as I entered through the South entry as they always did in the past. That always annoyed me.

NDizona · Post by **NDizona** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:04 am

http://www.lundco.com/overview.cfm

Click on Market Retail Overview - (lund puts spaces in the URL so I can't post it directly)

Go to page 7 - notice the other malls provided vacancy and lease numbers from 11/07 but Xroads only provided numbers from 5/06! and would not post rental average.

Post by **Brad** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:35 am

Those percentages for the crossroads just seem lot. There must just be so much square footage in the 3 big department stores they you take B&N, and Old Navy I bet it is a lower percentage.

I would like to see the percentages of the main mall with out the department stores.

bbinks · Post by **bbinks** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:16 pm

Thanks for the links.

I'm sure they have lost tenants in the last 20 months as well. It would be interesting to see if Target has any impact on increasing traffic on the mall itself. Those numbers are prior to Targets opening.

NDizona wrote:http://www.lundco.com/overview.cfm

Click on Market Retail Overview - (lund puts spaces in the URL so I can't post it directly)

Go to page 7 - notice the other malls provided vacancy and lease numbers from 11/07 but Xroads only provided numbers from 5/06! and would not post rental average.

joeglow · Post by **joeglow** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:52 pm

bbinks wrote:If my memory serves me correctly, the Omaha City Council instituted the 'No Cruising" ordinance for that stretch of Dodge Street about the same time that Crossroads had the teenager and gang loitering problems.

As obvious as that is, I had not thought of that. The ordinance was introduced in 1993 and things had gotten REAL bad with the cruising by that point. That certainly did not help the image of the mall or that strip of retail.

Post by **Brad** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:34 pm

joeglow wrote:
bbinks wrote:If my memory serves me correctly, the Omaha City Council instituted the 'No Cruising" ordinance for that stretch of Dodge Street about the same time that Crossroads had the teenager and gang loitering problems.
As obvious as that is, I had not thought of that. The ordinance was introduced in 1993 and things had gotten REAL bad with the cruising by that point. That certainly did not help the image of the mall or that strip of retail.

I really don't think cruising in the 90's has anything to do with today's problems with the mall? Poor management today is today's problems.

Big E · Post by **Big E** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:09 pm

Brad wrote:I really don't think cruising in the 90's has anything to do with today's problems with the mall? Poor management today is today's problems.

There may be a smattering of relevance to the theory. Take a huge "mall demographic" (teens with cars), and tell them they can't do what they're doing by the mall anymore. Then stand around and wonder why they're all gone.

I wouldn't hang the whole of the Crossroads' demise on that law, but it could be one of the reasons people drifted away. There were literally thousands of kids circling that area of Dodge (72nd to 90th or so) on any given night in the early 90s.

-Big E

NDizona · Post by **NDizona** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:13 pm

In my experience - malls are all about perception.

Businesses want to be in malls that mirror their demographics. Xroads has no identity - thats the problem.

bbinks · Post by **bbinks** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:30 pm

Back in the early 90s it was the loitering of the teens and some gang activity that may caused some people to not go. That certainly could have been the beginning of decreased traffic as I posted earlier, but what about now? What is the current perception of Crossroads? Other than the Target going into the mall, I've not heard Crossroads in the news in a long time. New management is needed and then the partnering of a good PR or marketing firm to get the name back out into the shoppers eyes.

NDizona wrote:In my experience - malls are all about perception.

Businesses want to be in malls that mirror their demographics. Xroads has no identity - thats the problem.

NDizona · Post by **NDizona** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:48 pm

Also - both Oakview and Westroads are managed by GGP. This may have something to do with their ability to mesh so well.

Xroads is managed by people that simply do not care...

OmahaJaysCU · Post by **OmahaJaysCU** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:39 pm

NDizona wrote:Also - both Oakview and Westroads are managed by GGP. This may have something to do with their ability to mesh so well.

Xroads is managed by people that simply do not care...

Which is odd, because Simon Properties has some outstanding malls and lifestyle centers in across the country, one would think they would at least put forth some effort at Crossroads.

NDizona · Post by **NDizona** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:32 pm

I think its just that they wrote this one off.

Post by **Brad** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:41 am

Its not about the kids hanging out. A kid got shot at the westroads back in the 90's when the AMC movie theater was still there.

joeglow · Post by **joeglow** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:06 am

bbinks wrote:Back in the early 90s it was the loitering of the teens and some gang activity that may caused some people to not go. That certainly could have been the beginning of decreased traffic as I posted earlier, but what about now? What is the current perception of Crossroads? Other than the Target going into the mall, I've not heard Crossroads in the news in a long time. New management is needed and then the partnering of a good PR or marketing firm to get the name back out into the shoppers eyes.

EXACTLY!!! That cruising is why so many lots along that stretch of Dodge still have gates at their entrances. Any given Saturday or Sunday morning was met with beer and liquor bottles ALL OVER THE PLACE. Any lot without a gate was automatically a public restroom and bar. During the summer months, avoid ANY business along there after 8 or so in the evening. This led to a perception that caused MANY people to go elsewhere for their shopping. Once the problem was resolved (with the no cruising law) many people had settled into their NEW routine of shopping.

While I agree that this is not the sole cause of the malls downward spiral, I do think it was an important contributor to the beginning of the demise.

joeglow · Post by **joeglow** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:10 am

Brad wrote:Its not about the kids hanging out. A kid got shot at the westroads back in the 90's when the AMC movie theater was still there.

-I also remember someone getting thrown off the second floor (when they had those balconies) at Westroads. The management immediately closed off those areas and stepped up security. Thus, I think it is a combination of a bad element and the Crossroads apathy in addressing it.

wbrook twr · Post by **wbrook twr** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:48 pm

It's been a while and I believe it was MAT behind the promotion to shop at the Crossroads and Westroads-they encouraged you to park and shop at the Crossroads then take the 2 to the Westroads shop and take the 2 back to your car. It was wonderful especially traveling from North Omaha. I hated driving to the Westroads still do, I would always get a good spot at the Crossroads catch the bus and shop the Westroads first, then bus back lock up my goods and go shop at the Crossroads-made for a less stressful shopping experience. Brad's idea to have some type of transport system between the Crossroads and Westroads is an excellent idea. Not everyone wants to make that trip it's just that the city and mall management is making the choice for us.

I was in Dillard's today-almost made me cry. Even though I quit working there last year, it was still like someone is taking your home away. They're shipping employees to Oakview and the CB store starting this week. It's just sad. I talked to some of the employee I used to work with and none of them really to go either direction because this location is convenient and close to their homes. Most of us rarely went to Oakview, the Crossroads used to everything we needed...Just sad!

cdub · Post by **cdub** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:52 am

Did Westroads not have any type of problems with the hanging around crowd? I know that when I was there a couple of times around 96-98 I was surprised to see OPD patrolling and a lot of teens milling all around. I had been to that mall a lot years before and never noticed that. I haven't noticed the same type of thing to the same extent since I moved here 2 years ago, however.

joeglow · Post by **joeglow** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:37 pm

Good thing General Growth doesn't own Crossroads. Apparently, they are not investing much in their US malls :

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/bus ... 36500.html

Post by **Brad** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:23 pm

joeglow wrote:Good thing General Growth doesn't own Crossroads. Apparently, they are not investing much in their US malls :

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/bus ... 36500.html

From the Artcle:

General Growth Properties, the second-largest U.S. owner of malls behind Simon Property Group

That funny because GGP is way ahead of Simon around here.

Post by **nebugeater** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 6:07 am

Looks like the Chili's @ Crossroads will be closing for good on Wednesday.

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2 ... d=10300998

Closing Chili's

The Chili's Grill & Bar at Crossroads Mall will close at 3 p.m. Wednesday, according to restaurant parent company Brinker International.

Dallas-based Brinker owns Chili's and Romano's Macaroni Grill, which closed its lone Omaha restaurant near Westroads Mall last week.
..............................

Post by **Brad** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 11:26 am

So is Chili's moving to westroads???