Omaha - Lincoln Intercity Bus Route

[BRoss]

NDOT is going to be doing a study on a bus route between Omaha and Lincoln:

The Nebraska Department of Transportation (NDOT) is conducting a feasibility study to deliver a future Lincoln to Omaha intercity bus route. The project team will review and discuss project needs, gaps and strategies for proposed transit routes between the two cities.

“We continue to work with our transportation partners to deliver statewide mobility by providing enhanced transportation choices to Nebraskans,” said NDOT Director Kyle Schneweis. “Gauging the interest of Nebraska motorists in a Lincoln to Omaha intercity bus route is an important step in meeting our goal of maximizing existing transportation resources.”

Nebraska residents are encouraged to attend any of the open house meetings, scheduled as follows:

• Wednesday, September 4, 2019, from 5:00-7:00 p.m. at the Greenwood Fire Hall (251 Broad Street, Greenwood, NE 68366)
• Thursday, September 5, 2019, from 5:00-7:00 p.m. at the Lancaster County Extension Office (444 Cherrycreek Rd., Lincoln, NE 68528)
• Friday, September 6, 2019, from 11:00 a.m.-1:00 p.m. at the Salvation Army Omaha Kroc Center (2825 Y Street, Omaha, NE 68107)

This project is part of Nebraska’s Mobility Management program, which seeks to coordinate and improve transportation options for Nebraskans. Anticipated completion of the study is spring of 2020.

“We look forward to working with our consultant and University partners to facilitate coordination among transportation providers and improving mobility options across the state,” said Kari Ruse, NDOT Transit Manager.

More information about Nebraska’s transit program and mobility management is available at https://nebraskatransit.com/.

https://dot.nebraska.gov/media/13819/8- ... etings.pdf

[ScrattyB]

I know there are a bunch of dreamers in here...What would you like to see?

How many stations and what route?
Express? Non-Express? Both?
Where approximately should they build the stations?
What should the stations be like? ORBT style? Park N Ride?
How many roundtrips per day, weekday, weekend, and Husker game days?

[ita]

I know there are a bunch of dreamers in here...What would you like to see?

How many stations and what route?
Express? Non-Express? Both?
Where approximately should they build the stations?
What should the stations be like? ORBT style? Park N Ride?
How many roundtrips per day, weekday, weekend, and Husker game days?

Is it lame to get excited about a study of a potential mass transit project? I know it seems all we ever get is studies about mass transit, but I am ecstatic that this is even being considered by the State. It's not the commuter rail we were discussing in another thread, but at least it's an option. So, here's my thoughts (while trying to be realistic).

Park and Ride system. Starts at Westroads (ORBT, Village Pointe Express, and other routes serves as feeders to Westroads), stops are at I-80 and L, I-80 and 144th or Southport, NEX, after this either direct to Downtown via I-80, or a route via US-6 to capture Ashland, Greenwood, and Waverly. I am not super familiar with Lincoln, so I don't know how many stops are needed, though US-6 seems to cut through a lot of commercial/industrial areas in Lincoln, though I don't know where people generally work if they live in the Omaha metro. I think the route to Omaha would be the same stops, though maybe something to easily connect to jobs in Akasarben like a stop at Center off I-80 or two routes from Lincoln; one that goes to Westroads and the other that goes directly Downtown, with a stop or two, at least at 72nd. The stops suggested would not only connect Omaha and Lincoln, but bedroom towns with their respective metropolises, ie. Gretna with Omaha, Waverly with Lincoln. I think this would be a great benefit depending on how the system is set up.

Riders should also have a universal passes that allows rides on the METRO, ORBT, intercity bus, and Startran.

Number of roundtrips are tricky. Obviously routes are needed both ways to get people who work regular 8 or 9 to 5 type jobs. But what about other shifts? We can't accommodate everyone, but it would be nice to have routes that would allow people travelling at odd hours, like a person flying into Omaha or Lincoln and going to the other city during the day or someone who might have taken the intercity bus but needs to get home in the middle of the day. So maybe starting at 6 AM-ish at Westroads and the Lincoln equivalent, every 15-20 minutes, until 8 then every two hours until 4 PM every 15-20 minutes til 6 PM. Of course, we have no data concerning how many travel between the Cities, which would help determine how many roundtrips are needed, but I am sure there will be a study about it if they move forward (look out Cowboy, we may finally have an answer about how many people travel between the Metros!).

Vehicles would be ORBT-style, high volume, high amenities with room for bikes, maximize speed and ease of boarding.

[ita]

Also, the meeting set for Omaha is in the middle of day. Do they expect people to take time off to attend this meeting? Those who would be interested are likely in Lincoln working during that time. The other meetings are in the evening.

[TitosBuritoBarn]

I would say that the starting points for these buses should be at two or three park-and-ride locations in Lincoln and Omaha - say Westroads, Oak View, and/or Village Pointe in Omaha with at least one having a transfer point from Orbt. For Lincoln, perhaps SouthPointe and Gateway. From there they should run express to areas of the highest concentration of employment and transit transfer points in the other city. Again two or three locations each.

The buses should be coach style with free WiFi.

About 3-7 trips each in the morning and afternoon should be fine.

It has to be fast, comfortable, and frequent or else it won't see much ridership. Neither city has enough congestion issues for intercity bus lines to operate in designated lanes (or on the inner shoulder like they do in Chicago), so it has to be advantageous in other ways - make it more appealing than sitting in your car and minimize negative aspects.

[nativeomahan]

The Colorado Department of Transportation runs a commuter bus line from Denver up I-25 to I believe Fort Collins. Sounds like it has been in place for a year or more, and it is quite popular, according to a story I read recently in the Denver Post.

[Omababe]

I saw this on the news and am intrigued by it.

My question is demand.

I'll occasionally see those OMA-LNK shuttles when I'm commuting in the morning and evening, and they look like they run very light most of the time.

[ita]

I saw this on the news and am intrigued by it.

My question is demand.

I'll occasionally see those OMA-LNK shuttles when I'm commuting in the morning and evening, and they look like they run very light most of the time.

Hopefully the study the state runs will produce some data about how many people travel between the two metros to help determine the demand, in conjunction to the local public meetings they will hold. I know anecdotally, many know people who make the trip going either way, but how many is enough to justify the route?

This is no way accurate, but if they end up using ORBT-like buses with a capacity of 80 people (Austin has similarly designed buses and reported that passenger capacity is 100; let's say people take in bikes that eat up some standing room), and let's say there are 6 trips in the morning and afternoon (3 an hour between 6 and 8 AM, and 4 and 6 PM), that's 480 people to fill those buses going each way. Between the two metros, 1.3 million, that's 1 in about 2700 who would need to use the bus system.

I would imagine that certain areas could fill the demand at least going from the Omaha Metro to Lincoln, particularly Gretna and Ashland. However, I know others in Millard and Papillion who also make that trip for regular 8 to 5 jobs.

[Stargazer]

I would almost guess the BRT line would be more appropriate for Omaha-Lincoln... and show more demand than Westroads down Dodge.

[OmahaFan]

We could have a light rail system run on the opposite side of I-80 to Lincoln it could be called the L line or the Big Red line. Once in Lincoln there could be stops by the Capitol building and Memorial stadium. Then in stops in West Omaha , La-Vista and Downtown Omaha. I’d be for that.

[nebugeater]

You guys know that there already is a bus shuttle between Lincoln and Omaha. The issue is not many can use it.

https://engineering.unl.edu/n-e-ride/

[ita]

You guys know that there already is a bus shuttle between Lincoln and Omaha. The issue is not many can use it.

https://engineering.unl.edu/n-e-ride/

Is this one to the public?

[Busguy2010]

If this were to become a reality, there would be no "stations", just stops. Regular buses, or coaches, at best. Its debatable if the terminal would be at Westroads and or Downtown

Downtown/Westroads
Southport
Nebraska Crossing
*Maybe* Mahoney/Platte river
Somewhere in East Lincoln
Downtown Lincoln

I wonder what entity would operate it. Probably would have to be separate from Metro and StarTrans

[nebugeater]

You guys know that there already is a bus shuttle between Lincoln and Omaha. The issue is not many can use it.

https://engineering.unl.edu/n-e-ride/

Is this one to the public?

Nope
Univ of Nebr systems with priority to the engineering college

[ScrattyB]

If this were to become a reality, there would be no "stations", just stops.

Sorry for my terminology. Would this be considered a station or a stop? https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9061929 ... 8192?hl=en

[ita]

If this were to become a reality, there would be no "stations", just stops. Regular buses, or coaches, at best. Its debatable if the terminal would be at Westroads and or Downtown

Downtown/Westroads
Southport
Nebraska Crossing
*Maybe* Mahoney/Platte river
Somewhere in East Lincoln
Downtown Lincoln

I wonder what entity would operate it. Probably would have to be separate from Metro and StarTrans

It would have to be some separate entity, right? The legislation that expanded transit agencies' reach still limit it to census defined MSA's, so while Metro could provide service to Gretna and Ashland if those Cities opted in, anything beyond that would have to come from some other regulated transit authority with broader powers.

[Busguy2010]

If this were to become a reality, there would be no "stations", just stops.

Sorry for my terminology. Would this be considered a station or a stop? https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9061929 ... 8192?hl=en

That probably could be considered a station because all of the infrastructure associated with it. Plus it has it's own dedicated pullout. I doubt Nebraska would pull off something like that. If we get a route, I see buses just exiting and dropping off at an exit, then getting right back on the interstate.

[Omahacritic]

Interesting concept vs a train.

If it isn’t an express route, most people just won’t use it. Too many stops, it loses efficiency. And any stops off of the high speed route ... the same. One stop around Greenwood ... with a special bus only on/off ramp. Perhaps another one around 72nd St so UNO/UNL shuttle can make final connection, and then downtown turnaround.

Stations or stops ... just nomenclature.

ORBT style or touring style ? Depends on the goal.

[Omababe]

The one case where I think this might be popular (too popular?) would be on football Saturdays. Parking in Lincoln can be a royal pain and, of course, one in your party should not be consuming adult beverages. You would not have to worry about parking and everyone can imbibe, more or less.

For a routine trip to Lincoln, however, I would have to drive to Nebraska Crossing (or wherever the stop/station is) because, well, in my neighborhood, driving is what everyone does 'cuz there's no alternative. Then I would have to park (would it be allowed for a non-customer?), leave the car, wait for the bus, ride into Lincoln, and then figure out what to do for local transportation to get to where I want to go in Lincoln.

Or, I could simply keep driving for another 30 minutes or so, drive to where I want to go in Lincoln, do my thing, and drive back without having to work around a return bus schedule.

It's really a no-brainer as to which option is quicker and better for a routine trip into Lincoln!

[ScrattyB]

Yeah, that's not what this is for. I'm sure it will be mentioned in the study though.

[jlincoln]

The UNL Engineering bus is great but very limited route. For a Oma-Linc route to work in my opinion, it needs to originate at I-80 & Hyw 370 (Papillion & Gretna) stop at Nebraska Crossing (LaVista & SW Omaha & Gretna commuters) non-stop to downtown Lincoln then stop at City campus then East campus (possibly 84th st. corridor) and return. I am a SW Omaha to Lincoln commuter and I-80 is too congested at drive times, something needs to be done to reduce the truck/car/speed ratio. I would take the bus if convenient and the route I've outlined is convenient for State, University and downtown business workers (That's pretty much everybody in Lincoln).

[Bob from Omaha]

When I was attending UNL in the late 70s a friend who is now an architect was in a class where he and a couple of others proposed and designed ENSET, the Eastern Nebraska Sports, Entertainment and Transportation District. ENSET was to be located around the Platte River off I-80 and was to include a 100,000 seat domed football stadium for UNL, a concert venue, a large modern airport, a high speed train station where the train between Omaha and Lincoln would stop, restaurants, hotels and in time, housing. They actually thought a city would develop around ENSET.
Of course it was prohibitively expensive but think about it. Had it been built not too long after being proposed it would be over 30 years old and possibly actually be a city with tens of thousands of residents and an airport with upper and lower roads even.

[Omahacritic]

How much of that would have been under water this year?

In a blue sky environment his was a grand idea. Of course, the tax base of Omaha and likely Lincoln would have been decimated.

Anyway, any system has to be high speed, and, go downtown to downtown. The meet is Friday. If I remember I might head to South O and listen in.

[ita]

Here's an article from the Journal Star about the results of the first two meetings in Lincoln and Greenwood and some information about the planners are thinking for the service.

https://journalstar.com/news/local/govt ... e772e.html

An estimated 13,000 people commute between Lincoln and Omaha each workday, according to Olsson, which is studying the concept for the state.
...
An intercity bus line of 10 to 15 buses could serve as many as 520 riders a day and could be paid for with a mix of federal grant dollars, state transportation funds and a match from local communities served by the line, Olsson officials said.
...
All of the participants in one breakout group Thursday said they'd pay a fare between $5 and $7 per trip if the service was dependable.
...
Project officials say they're looking at a line that would run between Omaha and Lincoln on Interstate 80 and a separate line that would connect to the small towns between them on U.S. 6.

Like ConnectGo, the officials heading this project are looking for community input to help determine where the stops should be among other things, thus the three meetings. Similarly, there is a survey you can fill out to give your input; how often service should be, what days it should be offered, where the stops should be located. https://unomaha.az1.qualtrics.com/jfe/f ... 8VAYEddjO5

[Omahacritic]

I went to meet in South O today. A big Blah.

Basically, the funding is there for a bus route, now. Meeting was led by consulting groups. Most haven’t lived outside of the area.

My perception ... meeting is required by law, we have decided and input only wanted because the law says so. I’m guessing the Eastern Terminus is intended to be Westroads.

They seriously expect people to want to ride a nice coach for 30 miles, then get on a city bus for a trip to Med Center or Downtown.

They cited examples of bus service between Cedar Rapids-Iowa City; Cities in Minnesota; Intercity buses in Colorado.

[BRoss]

They seriously expect people to want to ride a nice coach for 30 miles, then get on a city bus for a trip to Med Center or Downtown.

Well with BRT, that doesn't sound like a bad plan.

[Omahacritic]

They seriously expect people to want to ride a nice coach for 30 miles, then get on a city bus for a trip to Med Center or Downtown.

Well with BRT, that doesn't sound like a bad plan.

You live in Yutan. You want to see your Doctor at Med Center. You would end up driving to some station, Get on Bus. Go to Westroads. Wait for BRT. Then have to ride 7 or 8 stops to Med Center. Then get back to Yutan the same way. All while toting your oxygen bottle.

Think a car is a better alternative.

[nativeomahan]

I’m old enough to remember the pitch line the real estate people used to hawk homesites in Yutan: “You can...in Yutan!”

[BRoss]

You live in Yutan. You want to see your Doctor at Med Center. You would end up driving to some station, Get on Bus. Go to Westroads. Wait for BRT. Then have to ride 7 or 8 stops to Med Center. Then get back to Yutan the same way. All while toting your oxygen bottle.

Think a car is a better alternative.

That's a very specific use-case and that's not how buses work. You normally have to make transfers in order to get to where you want to go. This is about going between Omaha and Lincoln. Once you make it here, you can use the city buses to get you closer to your destination.

Also, if this is going along I-80 or Hwy 6, Yutan is not likely going to be along this route anyways.

Yes, taking a car is going to be easier and quicker. That's not the point. It's for those who would like (or need) to not have to own a car. Or save on gas. Or for those who don't want to drive into the city (for reasons such as dealing with parking, etc). It's not meant to be more convenient as buses can never be as quick or take you exactly to your destination.

[daveoma]

You live in Yutan. You want to see your Doctor at Med Center. You would end up driving to some station, Get on Bus. Go to Westroads. Wait for BRT. Then have to ride 7 or 8 stops to Med Center. Then get back to Yutan the same way. All while toting your oxygen bottle.

Think a car is a better alternative.

That's a very specific use-case and that's not how buses work. You normally have to make transfers in order to get to where you want to go. This is about going between Omaha and Lincoln. Once you make it here, you can use the city buses to get you closer to your destination.

Also, if this is going along I-80 or Hwy 6, Yutan is not likely going to be along this route anyways.

Yes, taking a car is going to be easier and quicker. That's not the point. It's for those who would like (or need) to not have to own a car. Or save on gas. Or for those who don't want to drive into the city (for reasons such as dealing with parking, etc). It's not meant to be more convenient as buses can never be as quick or take you exactly to your destination.

I suspect there are lots of students that live in Omaha who go to school at UNL and vice versa. I suspect something like this would be very popular with students who can afford the fare.

[Louie]

You live in Yutan. You want to see your Doctor at Med Center. You would end up driving to some station, Get on Bus. Go to Westroads. Wait for BRT. Then have to ride 7 or 8 stops to Med Center. Then get back to Yutan the same way. All while toting your oxygen bottle.

Think a car is a better alternative.

That's a very specific use-case and that's not how buses work. You normally have to make transfers in order to get to where you want to go. This is about going between Omaha and Lincoln. Once you make it here, you can use the city buses to get you closer to your destination.

Also, if this is going along I-80 or Hwy 6, Yutan is not likely going to be along this route anyways.

Yes, taking a car is going to be easier and quicker. That's not the point. It's for those who would like (or need) to not have to own a car. Or save on gas. Or for those who don't want to drive into the city (for reasons such as dealing with parking, etc). It's not meant to be more convenient as buses can never be as quick or take you exactly to your destination.

I suspect there are lots of students that live in Omaha who go to school at UNL and vice versa. I suspect something like this would be very popular with students who can afford the fare.

Maybe its just me, but that seems very unlikely.

[ita]

Someone from the Reddit Omaha page attended the Omaha meeting last Friday. NDOT is looking at two routes, one via I-80, the other US-6. Buses will likely have WIFI, plug in ports, handicap access. Stops will no be like ORBT, for now. I think this should work out nicely. Their projections and goals are modest enough; I could see potential growth in the route after it's implemented.

[Omahacritic]

Paperstacks, if that were true the Consultants would not be asking about intermediate stops. And would not be considering US6.

The Engineering College runs a bus between campuses. It is quite popular ... to the point where they got bigger buses. University ID card required.

Ita ... they said they are looking at buses with those amenities. But, they are pretty standard fare on motor coaches making that kind of trip.
Airport was also brought up. They were a bit evasive on that topic. I think its because they just don’t have the numbers.

Another thing that really struck me, and it’s no fault of presenters, is there does not seem to be a centralized transportation website for metro area. Some cities, especially in Europe have all the transportation schedules integrated at one site. The consultants hope governments change that.

[ScrattyB]

they said they are looking at buses with those amenities. But, they are pretty standard fare on motor coaches making that kind of trip.

Yeah, it would be weird if they didn't have those options pre-installed...if they plan on buying new buses. Hopefully they aren't planning to utilize used buses or cycle in MAT buses.

[BRoss]

Paperstacks, if that were true the Consultants would not be asking about intermediate stops. And would not be considering US6.

I never said there shouldn't be any intermediate stops. Just saying that the primary purpose is going between Omaha and Lincoln. I think it would be great it they would follow Highway 6 so we can get buses out further west.

My main point is that you can't expect it to go exactly where you want it to and that city buses would have to supplement it. I personally think terminating at Westroads would be a logical stopping point for a more minimal route. If they then continued downtown with stops at places like UNO and UNMC, then even better. But we can't forget that we have other options once we get to Omaha, especially with BRT coming next year.

[Omahacritic]

Then at that point smaller towns utilize inter city bus more often. Supports my point.

They also mentioned the subconscious formula drivers use to determine whether they drive or ride a bus. I think it was something like 20% extra transit time before they say heck with it and drive.

[Busguy2010]

I don't see any way a bus that drives along HWY 6 would be popular with the people riding end to end. HWY 6 vs I-80 would probably end up being the difference between 50 minutes and well over an hour if you're talking about stopping in Waverly, Greenwood and Ashland.

So then, I feel like, if the point of the route is to connect people from Omaha to Lincoln, it has to go on I-80. And if that's the case, the only intermediate stop I could see would be one at or around Ashland/Mahoney. Then you could say "Who would ride a bus to Mahoney?" and "Ashland is too far from I-80". So I think an I-80 route wouldn't stop in between the cities.

Downtown Lincoln
East Lincoln
Gretna
Southport
Westroads and or Downtown Omaha

is what I think it would realistically be.

The benefit of a train between the cities is you could avoid the traffic getting in and out of Omaha and Lincoln, still go 75 mph and have a stop in Ashland. This study tells me how far away we are from a train between Omaha and Lincoln.

[ita]

I don't see any way a bus that drives along HWY 6 would be popular with the people riding end to end. HWY 6 vs I-80 would probably end up being the difference between 50 minutes and well over an hour if you're talking about stopping in Waverly, Greenwood and Ashland.

So then, I feel like, if the point of the route is to connect people from Omaha to Lincoln, it has to go on I-80. And if that's the case, the only intermediate stop I could see would be one at or around Ashland/Mahoney. Then you could say "Who would ride a bus to Mahoney?" and "Ashland is too far from I-80". So I think an I-80 route wouldn't stop in between the cities.

Downtown Lincoln
East Lincoln
Gretna
Southport
Westroads and or Downtown Omaha

is what I think it would realistically be.

The benefit of a train between the cities is you could avoid the traffic getting in and out of Omaha and Lincoln, still go 75 mph and have a stop in Ashland. This study tells me how far away we are from a train between Omaha and Lincoln.

I think they are exploring the possibility of having both routes, the one you suggested that should be a priority along I-80 and the other along US-6. Where each begins and terminates, I have seen Westroads and the downtowns as possibilities.

I wonder too how this effort will coincide with regional transit within each MSA. Ashland and Gretna can now join Metro while Greenwood and Waverly can be a part of Lincoln's regional transit authority, assuming they create one. If that works out, than the US-6 route would likely be moot?

[Omahacritic]

The plan is to basically lea4n to crawl before you can learn to walk. I don’t completely disagree.

Another sad part —. I got the impression they assume BNSF would not agree to sharing any Right of Way. Did not sound like they even asked.

[Padre]

Another sad part —. I got the impression they assume BNSF would not agree to sharing any Right of Way. Did not sound like they even asked.

Part of the question would be is it in the interest of BNSF to have extra traffic filling up their tracks?
I suspect the answer is “no”.