Biden Infrastructure Plan

[PWL73316]

Acknowledging that the bill may or may not pass, this plan, among many other things, has nearly $100 billion each for intercity rail and intracity mass transit expansions, as well as an even bigger bucket to "fix" existing road infrastructure.

How prepared is Omaha to take advantage of money becoming available? Are we smart enough to say yes to a good deal if there is substantial federal money available for light rail or a streetcar?

Would rail options between Omaha and Lincoln become a possibility with this funding? Does anyone have any sense how a project like that would fit into the federal priorities?

Just a few questions to hopefully get discussion started.

[PWL73316]

Most detailed breakdown of the plan I can find this morning, with the text just coming out:

https://abc7news.com/joe-biden-infrastr ... /10462634/

This section I believe is the most relevant to transportation:

- $115 billion to modernize the bridges, highways and roads that are in the worst shape. The White House outline estimated 20,000 miles (32,187 kilometers) of roadways would be repaired, while economically significant bridges and 10,000 smaller bridges would get fixed.

- $85 billion for public transit, doubling the federal government's commitment in an effort to shorten the repair backlog and expand service.

- $80 billion to modernize Amtrak's heavily trafficked Northeast Corridor line, address its repair backlog and improve freight rail.

- $174 billion to build 500,000 electric vehicle charging stations, electrify 20% of school buses and electrify the federal fleet, including U.S. Postal Service vehicles.

- $25 billion to upgrade air travel and airports and $17 billion for waterways and coastal ports.

- $20 billion to redress communities whose neighborhoods - typically nonwhite - were divided by highway projects.

[Garrett]

Most detailed breakdown of the plan I can find this morning, with the text just coming out:

https://abc7news.com/joe-biden-infrastr ... /10462634/

This section I believe is the most relevant to transportation:

- $115 billion to modernize the bridges, highways and roads that are in the worst shape. The White House outline estimated 20,000 miles (32,187 kilometers) of roadways would be repaired, while economically significant bridges and 10,000 smaller bridges would get fixed.

- $85 billion for public transit, doubling the federal government's commitment in an effort to shorten the repair backlog and expand service.

- $80 billion to modernize Amtrak's heavily trafficked Northeast Corridor line, address its repair backlog and improve freight rail.

- $174 billion to build 500,000 electric vehicle charging stations, electrify 20% of school buses and electrify the federal fleet, including U.S. Postal Service vehicles.

- $25 billion to upgrade air travel and airports and $17 billion for waterways and coastal ports.

- $20 billion to redress communities whose neighborhoods - typically nonwhite - were divided by highway projects.

I think Omaha could easily take advantage of the transit funds, along with the air travel and highway redress funds. The North Freeway could easily qualify, and there's also an additional $25 billion for "a dedicated fund to support ambitious projects that have tangible benefits to the regional or national economy but are too large or complex for existing funding programs."

[PWL73316]

there's also an additional $25 billion for "a dedicated fund to support ambitious projects that have tangible benefits to the regional or national economy but are too large or complex for existing funding programs."

Spaceport Omaha here we come

[Busguy2010]

Lets just hope we would be prepared to accept some of the allocations rather than them going to cities such as Denver, Seattle, Portland, Los Angeles, Chicago, New York, that already have comprehensive transportation systems.

If it happens.

[ricko]

Historically, the way these things work, and the way money is allocated really depends on the political leadership in each state. Proposals and grants have to be written and submitted for approval. THAT could be a good thing or a bad thing depending on who's in power on the state and local level. Governors, Mayors and members of Congress have to be willing to aggressively seek to get their share. Good luck with that one.

[Busguy2010]

Historically, the way these things work, and the way money is allocated really depends on the political leadership in each state. Proposals and grants have to be written and submitted for approval. THAT could be a good thing or a bad thing depending on who's in power on the state and local level. Governors, Mayors and members of Congress have to be willing to aggressively seek to get their share. Good luck with that one.

Yeah, I don't have a lot of faith on that front. The best influence we have now is Metro, which is kinda ironic. The new Executive Director, Lauren Cencic seems to be a pretty progressive mind, and the board of directors at Metro, especially Jay Lund have motivations to get things done. The mayor seems like she's more receptive in the past couple years, but I have little faith in Pete and his office. I guess we'll see how the cards fall.

[LetsBeReal22]

but I have little faith in Pete and his office. I guess we'll see how the cards fall.

Isn't this exactly what his Transportation Innovation Act covers? Maybe he can now fund it and get projects moved through.
https://dot.nebraska.gov/projects/tia/

https://omaha.com/state-and-regional/ri ... f6ebf.html

[ita]

but I have little faith in Pete and his office. I guess we'll see how the cards fall.

Isn't this exactly what his Transportation Innovation Act covers? Maybe he can now fund it and get projects moved through.
https://dot.nebraska.gov/projects/tia/

https://omaha.com/state-and-regional/ri ... f6ebf.html

His plan is too much highway widenings, not enough for multi-modal/public transit. According to that website, multi-modal projects are awarded a paltry (in comparison to highway projects) grant of usually less than $500,000. There really is no innovation in his plan unfortunately.

[LetsBeReal22]

but I have little faith in Pete and his office. I guess we'll see how the cards fall.

Isn't this exactly what his Transportation Innovation Act covers? Maybe he can now fund it and get projects moved through.
https://dot.nebraska.gov/projects/tia/

https://omaha.com/state-and-regional/ri ... f6ebf.html

His plan is too much highway widenings, not enough for multi-modal/public transit. According to that website, multi-modal projects are awarded a paltry (in comparison to highway projects) grant of usually less than $500,000. There really is no innovation in his plan unfortunately.

Don't need innovation to collect money. They just need to show that the items in that plan are "economically significant".

[ricko]

Was listening to C-SPAN radio in the car yesterday (Yeah, we have C-Span radio on the commercial band here, cuz' Washington) and they were interviewing the new Sect. of Transportation, Pete Buttegieg. Anyway, it seems like the infrastructure bill will be largely focused on innovations ushering the country into more sustainable, and less fossil fuel oriented modes of transportation. I'm interested to see how this plays out.

[Bob from Omaha]

I know it's not sexy in this environment, what with electric vehicles, trains, bridges and all, but maybe Eppley could tap a little bit of this money and actually make the terminal renovation something more than utilitarian. I've done some traveling lately and from what I've seen of airport modernization around the country it seems that there is a trend toward actually building inviting spaces. I know we haven't seen the final plan yet but I kind of get the idea that Eppley is simply wanting to get by cheap and plain. Of course I could be wrong.

[PWL73316]

$25 billion in there for airports, no reason we can't get a piece of it.

[ita]

I guess this is somewhat related, but here is a plan to expand service for Amtrak across the nation (not in Omaha), that is hinged on federal dollar under the infrastructure plan. One funny note, the route map of expanded service for the central region (page 43), identifies Iowa as Minnesota.

http://media.amtrak.com/wp-content/uplo ... 7_2021.pdf

[Uffda]

I guess this is somewhat related, but here is a plan to expand service for Amtrak across the nation (not in Omaha), that is hinged on federal dollar under the infrastructure plan. One funny note, the route map of expanded service for the central region (page 43), identifies Iowa as Minnesota.

http://media.amtrak.com/wp-content/uplo ... 7_2021.pdf

Interesting that SDak was totally left out. I guess the state didn’t get their act together.

[WorldStreet]

I looked into taking a train from Omaha to Denver. Yikes. The only train of the day leaves a little before midnight and the cheapest room with a small bed is $437 one way ($86 for an overnight seat).

[Brad]

I looked into taking a train from Omaha to Denver. Yikes. The only train of the day leaves a little before midnight and the cheapest room with a small bed is $437 one way ($86 for an overnight seat).

Yep, Amtrak has never been good for Omaha. The return gets in about 5 am.

[ita]

Looking at the proposed routes where Amtrak is trying to connect major cities with a lot of North of South, I am bummed there isn't anything for Omaha and KC, or generally the North to South corridor north of KC.

[Padre]

I looked into taking a train from Omaha to Denver. Yikes. The only train of the day leaves a little before midnight and the cheapest room with a small bed is $437 one way ($86 for an overnight seat).

Part of the reason is that rooms with a bed are designed for two people. Obviously, chairs are only for one person. Admittingly still double the price, and those chairs aren't that comfortable.

[bigredmed1]

Looking at the proposed routes where Amtrak is trying to connect major cities with a lot of North of South, I am bummed there isn't anything for Omaha and KC, or generally the North to South corridor north of KC.

One would think that a commuter rail between Omaha and Lincoln would make money and at least a couple of time per week (say Friday going south and Sunday evening going north) could be well used between Sioux City and KCMO with a stop in Omaha.

As others have said, Amtrak has never been good for Omaha or anywhere in Nebraska. Even in NP, Alliance, and other rail heavy towns, if you get a train, it comes through at ridiculous hours and often doesn’t connect to useful places.

[Bomaha]

If they actually got rid of the Maximum 750 mile for new long distance, a nice North/South connection: MPLS/SP - Mankato - Sioux City - Omaha - KC - Wichita.

It would connect multiple long distance and even the proposed enhanced network routes. You could extend it to OKC and the Metroplex for additional connectivity, etc. to the Texas Triangle newly proposed routes.

The other major thing I would do is extend the proposed Quad Cities route to Omaha on the Iowa Interstate Railroad and/or shift the California Zephyr to it as well.

[GetUrban]

If they actually got rid of the Maximum 750 mile for new long distance, a nice North/South connection: MPLS/SP - Mankato - Sioux City - Omaha - KC - Wichita.

It would connect multiple long distance and even the proposed enhanced network routes. You could extend it to OKC and the Metroplex for additional connectivity, etc. to the Texas Triangle newly proposed routes.

The other major thing I would do is extend the proposed Quad Cities route to Omaha on the Iowa Interstate Railroad and/or shift the California Zephyr to it as well.

An Omaha to KC connection would really open up a lot of options for us to go southwest, northeast, or east from there. A new St Louis to Nashville connection would provide a connection all the way to Atlanta and other areas in the south. But I suppose it’s easy enough to just fly if you need to travel far.

[bigredmed1]

If they actually got rid of the Maximum 750 mile for new long distance, a nice North/South connection: MPLS/SP - Mankato - Sioux City - Omaha - KC - Wichita.

It would connect multiple long distance and even the proposed enhanced network routes. You could extend it to OKC and the Metroplex for additional connectivity, etc. to the Texas Triangle newly proposed routes.

The other major thing I would do is extend the proposed Quad Cities route to Omaha on the Iowa Interstate Railroad and/or shift the California Zephyr to it as well.

An Omaha to KC connection would really open up a lot of options for us to go southwest, northeast, or east from there. A new St Louis to Nashville connection would provide a connection all the way to Atlanta and other areas in the south. But I suppose it’s easy enough to just fly if you need to travel far.

That’s Amtrak’s problem. Not even trying to compete. It would be cool to hop a train to KC for the weekend. Even cooler to train through Tennessee to ATL.

[GetUrban]

If they actually got rid of the Maximum 750 mile for new long distance, a nice North/South connection: MPLS/SP - Mankato - Sioux City - Omaha - KC - Wichita.

It would connect multiple long distance and even the proposed enhanced network routes. You could extend it to OKC and the Metroplex for additional connectivity, etc. to the Texas Triangle newly proposed routes.

The other major thing I would do is extend the proposed Quad Cities route to Omaha on the Iowa Interstate Railroad and/or shift the California Zephyr to it as well.

An Omaha to KC connection would really open up a lot of options for us to go southwest, northeast, or east from there. A new St Louis to Nashville connection would provide a connection all the way to Atlanta and other areas in the south. But I suppose it’s easy enough to just fly if you need to travel far.

That’s Amtrak’s problem. Not even trying to compete. It would be cool to hop a train to KC for the weekend. Even cooler to train through Tennessee to ATL.

For sure, but the mountainous terrain is probably the biggest obstacle for a Tennessee to Atlanta route.

[bigredmed1]

If they actually got rid of the Maximum 750 mile for new long distance, a nice North/South connection: MPLS/SP - Mankato - Sioux City - Omaha - KC - Wichita.

It would connect multiple long distance and even the proposed enhanced network routes. You could extend it to OKC and the Metroplex for additional connectivity, etc. to the Texas Triangle newly proposed routes.

The other major thing I would do is extend the proposed Quad Cities route to Omaha on the Iowa Interstate Railroad and/or shift the California Zephyr to it as well.

An Omaha to KC connection would really open up a lot of options for us to go southwest, northeast, or east from there. A new St Louis to Nashville connection would provide a connection all the way to Atlanta and other areas in the south. But I suppose it’s easy enough to just fly if you need to travel far.

That’s Amtrak’s problem. Not even trying to compete. It would be cool to hop a train to KC for the weekend. Even cooler to train through Tennessee to ATL.

For sure, but the mountainous terrain is probably the biggest obstacle for a Tennessee to Atlanta route.

Trains already go there. So does the interstate and several highways. Drove from ATL to Nashville with time to tour Jack Daniels distillery. Just think that Amtrak is more East Coast trak and not rest of America Trak.

[Dundeemaha]

Well you can't possibly expect to have quality nationwide rail service while spending peanuts on it. We've spent tens of billions on Amtrak over its entire existence while spending tens of trillions on highways and interstates. Amtrak's only real problem is a lack of funding.

Just like Omaha's bus system. We subsidize the |expletive| out of cars then throw our hands up like "well if the market wanted transit we'd have it", as if.

[bigredmed1]

Well you can't possibly expect to have quality nationwide rail service while spending peanuts on it. We've spent tens of billions on Amtrak over its entire existence while spending tens of trillions on highways and interstates. Amtrak's only real problem is a lack of funding.

Just like Omaha's bus system. We subsidize the |expletive| out of cars then throw our hands up like "well if the market wanted transit we'd have it", as if.

Minneapolis, to Des Moines, to Omaha, to KC. Rail already exists between all of these points. AMTRAK already has stations in all these cities. Rolling stock in abundance. Exactly what beyond employees and marketing do they need to spend billions on to set up this test bed?

Once the spine is working, you could add in southern expansion to Little Rock or OKC. You could do it in loops that are northern and southern with a nexus in KC.

You could add in Sioux Falls so that AMTRAK could honestly say that they are providing rail service to SD. Through Sioux City, that serves NW Iowa and would expand tourism into Spirit Lake and Okiboji. The southern loop would add tourism to the Ozarks and Branson.

Pro sports in the Twin Cities and KC/OKC would be boosted as would our zoo. After all, you could pile the kids on a train and get a family sleeper car and make an adventure out of the travel.

[Garrett]

Well you can't possibly expect to have quality nationwide rail service while spending peanuts on it. We've spent tens of billions on Amtrak over its entire existence while spending tens of trillions on highways and interstates. Amtrak's only real problem is a lack of funding.

Just like Omaha's bus system. We subsidize the |expletive| out of cars then throw our hands up like "well if the market wanted transit we'd have it", as if.

Minneapolis, to Des Moines, to Omaha, to KC. Rail already exists between all of these points. AMTRAK already has stations in all these cities. Rolling stock in abundance. Exactly what beyond employees and marketing do they need to spend billions on to set up this test bed?

Once the spine is working, you could add in southern expansion to Little Rock or OKC. You could do it in loops that are northern and southern with a nexus in KC.

You could add in Sioux Falls so that AMTRAK could honestly say that they are providing rail service to SD. Through Sioux City, that serves NW Iowa and would expand tourism into Spirit Lake and Okiboji. The southern loop would add tourism to the Ozarks and Branson.

Pro sports in the Twin Cities and KC/OKC would be boosted as would our zoo. After all, you could pile the kids on a train and get a family sleeper car and make an adventure out of the travel.

Actually there is no Amtrak station in Des Moines. The closest is in Osceola, about a 45 minute to an hour drive to the south. A difficulty with expanding rail service is that while all these rail lines exist, they’re owned by private rail companies that take priority over Amtrak. I think the only significant stretch of rail Amtrak owns is the northeast corridor.

[GetUrban]

Here’s a link to an interesting map showing all of the different freight railroads in the USA, for those who are interested and to aid the discussion.

https://www.acwr.com/economic-developme ... t-carriers

There does seem to be a gap in direct northwest to southeast routes, for example from St Louis to Atlanta. It probably would be no easy task to build new passenger rail lines following existing interstate or highway routes, but perhaps some of the huge amount of highway funds spent now could be diverted to that purpose, which could also decrease the need to spend so much on ever-expanding interstate infrastructure.

[buildomaha]

Super interesting thread that shows how much Omaha has to gain from Chicago’s potential renaissance as America’s transportation hub.

https://twitter.com/quincylvania/status ... Cktsch73dQ

(I’m not quite sure how to embed the tweet)

[Louie]

Des Moines gets completely skipped over ha

[Coyote]

[TitosBuritoBarn]

I think to get quality, fast, reliable, nationwide rail service in the US, the freight railroads are going to need to scale back operations or go under completely leaving AmTrak to acquire their leftover rail infrastructure to do as they wish to accommodate faster trains on top of no longer having to yield priority to their freight trains.

…They’ll also need money.

[Damtheplatte]

Des Moines gets completely skipped over ha

Laughed at the same thing.

Side note really hope something high speed actually comes to fruition. It’s long long overdue IMO. I enjoy imagining debating to do air or rail to get to places like Denver and Texas.

[Louie]

Des Moines gets completely skipped over ha

Laughed at the same thing.

Side note really hope something high speed actually comes to fruition. It’s long long overdue IMO. I enjoy imagining debating to do air or rail to get to places like Denver and Texas.

Agreed.

[Uffda]

Des Moines gets completely skipped over ha

And South Dakota is a big wide empty in the middle.

[TransitOriented]

Des Moines gets completely skipped over ha

The train doesn't currently go to Des Moines, they would have to build a new spur into town.

[Athomsfere]

Des Moines gets completely skipped over ha

Laughed at the same thing.

Side note really hope something high speed actually comes to fruition. It’s long long overdue IMO. I enjoy imagining debating to do air or rail to get to places like Denver and Texas.

Agreed.

I'd point out the metrics that are generally tossed around. Denver would be a reasonable choice (Although not ideal) but Texas would generally be too far.