The View on 39th - Apartments (39th & Dodge)

[Garrett]

Hard to tell all the exact details from the video alone, but 136 units in a residential only 4-story building with what looks like a parking garage on the first floor. Can't really beat taking up a vacant lot either.

Developers hold resident meeting for those who live near 39th and Dodge

[daveoma]

It looks like the old Travel Inn site. Although it might be out of place, given the neighborhood, I'm surprised that there isn't something taller being built here. It's one of the tallest hills near downtown, and the views would be very nice. :-)

[skinzfan23]

It will be great to finally see that land developed, but the plan looks pretty meh.

[Busguy2010]

It sounds like they are using the feedback they got from the meeting. I can imagine the overall consensus was "make it look better than that!". I hope they get it right, because that lot has been vacant for almost 20 years. I don't remember exactly what was there before, can anybody help with that?

Anyhow, the address is 3902, so we can be specific about it. I like this development miles better than the one one block catty-corner to this, which will be tearing down a number of perfectly restorable historic houses.

[ita]

It looks like the old Travel Inn site. Although it might be out of place, given the neighborhood, I'm surprised that there isn't something taller being built here. It's one of the tallest hills near downtown, and the views would be very nice. :-)

I didn't think about the elevation. It kind of looks like there is a large common patio on the west side, so they should have a decent view of UNMC from there, even at 4 stories. I know the design shown isn't for anyone (I kind of like the minimalism, some of the boxes lately have gotten too busy), but it's an empty lot so I am happy to see this happening. Also, looking at Woodsonia's website, they have primarily been involved in suburban development, so I am glad that there is another developer getting into urban infill.

[Vitruvius]

What design? There's no design present. There's no consideration for the surrounding character.
Even a box with windows can become a striking contemporary design and play well others when some actual creativity and design is applied.
Is this really the best talent schools of architecture can produce in the 21st century?

[buildomaha]

What design? There's no design present. There's no consideration for the surrounding character.
Even a box with windows can become a striking contemporary design and play well others when some actual creativity and design is applied.
Is this really the best talent schools of architecture can produce in the 21st century?

No, the worst architecture schools put out much better work than this. The hyper-capitalist, short-term profit focused world we live in won’t pay for decent design standards. The same is not as prominent across the Atlantic.

[ita]

What design? There's no design present. There's no consideration for the surrounding character.
Even a box with windows can become a striking contemporary design and play well others when some actual creativity and design is applied.
Is this really the best talent schools of architecture can produce in the 21st century?

No, the worst architecture schools put out much better work than this. The hyper-capitalist, short-term profit focused world we live in won’t pay for decent design standards. The same is not as prominent across the Atlantic.

I don't know if this directly applies, but when car tuning on a budget, there is an axiom that goes like this, "cheap, fast, reliable; pick two." Generally, all three can't exist in a modified vehicle being built on a low budget. Maybe for large scale multifamily housing it goes something like this, "affordable, good design, dense; pick two."

[Busguy2010]

I don't know if this directly applies, but when car tuning on a budget, there is an axiom that goes like this, "cheap, fast, reliable; pick two." Generally, all three can't exist in a modified vehicle being built on a low budget. Maybe for large scale multifamily housing it goes something like this, "affordable, good design, dense; pick two."

I get that, but the problem I have when people come in defense of developments like this is, "How affortable is affordable, really?" They could build with straw and a tin roof, and if the going rate is still 1,200/month, or 400,000, they aren't going to cut any breaks. In other words, I don't think developers are cutting design corners to keep the end product cost low, they are doing it to optimize profit margins as much as possible... Nothing wrong wrong with that, but I just don't think there's anything noble behind the lack of design consciousness developers have in general. I only cut them a bit of a break now because lumber prices are up again, but the lack of design was still present in previous years when a 2x4 was less than $2.00. So I don't really buy that Its like behind the scene, they are bumping elbow to arm and chuckling " How cheap do you think we can build this and the saps will still buy it for X?"

[OracleOfOmaha]

What design? There's no design present. There's no consideration for the surrounding character.
Even a box with windows can become a striking contemporary design and play well others when some actual creativity and design is applied.
Is this really the best talent schools of architecture can produce in the 21st century?

I think it fits in great with the surrounding character...*checks notes*... a gas station, taco bell, and a fake weed shop.

This is good infill for the area and is an improvement over the vacant lot. 740 Park Avenue isn't being built in this area.

[Busguy2010]

What design? There's no design present. There's no consideration for the surrounding character.
Even a box with windows can become a striking contemporary design and play well others when some actual creativity and design is applied.
Is this really the best talent schools of architecture can produce in the 21st century?

I think it fits in great with the surrounding character...*checks notes*... a gas station, taco bell, and a fake weed shop.

This is good infill for the area and is an improvement over the vacant lot. 740 Park Avenue isn't being built in this area.

I think they are referring more to this:

And this:

And this type of stuff:

[TransitOriented]

It sounds like they are using the feedback they got from the meeting. I can imagine the overall consensus was "make it look better than that!". I hope they get it right, because that lot has been vacant for almost 20 years. I don't remember exactly what was there before, can anybody help with that?

In addition to the hotel, there was a pretty good Vietnamese restaurant on the ground floor.

[Vitruvius]

What design? There's no design present. There's no consideration for the surrounding character.
Even a box with windows can become a striking contemporary design and play well others when some actual creativity and design is applied.
Is this really the best talent schools of architecture can produce in the 21st century?

I think it fits in great with the surrounding character...*checks notes*... a gas station, taco bell, and a fake weed shop.

This is good infill for the area and is an improvement over the vacant lot. 740 Park Avenue isn't being built in this area.

So, in other words, continue to lower the bar: ignore, overwhelm, and eat away the best characteristics of the area, illustrate desperation using the "anything would be an improvement" excuse. And maybe, as part of the solution, the architecture profession needs to demand more of itself.

[ita]

What design? There's no design present. There's no consideration for the surrounding character.
Even a box with windows can become a striking contemporary design and play well others when some actual creativity and design is applied.
Is this really the best talent schools of architecture can produce in the 21st century?

I think it fits in great with the surrounding character...*checks notes*... a gas station, taco bell, and a fake weed shop.

This is good infill for the area and is an improvement over the vacant lot. 740 Park Avenue isn't being built in this area.

So, in other words, continue to lower the bar: ignore, overwhelm, and eat away the best characteristics of the area, illustrate desperation using the "anything would be an improvement" excuse. And maybe, as part of the solution, the architecture profession needs to demand more of itself.

I get yours and everyone's qualms about design, but architects on these projects are working within very specific confines of what the developer wants and limited budgets. Unfortunately, they are asked to design 3-5 story boxes. Maybe there is a courtyard or a retail component, but otherwise there is only so much they can do. Yeah, their design choices are often questionable in the context of the neighborhood, but it's not like they can just do whatever they want. I am not trying to justify what we've seen lately (as in the last 10 years) in apartment designs, but there are reasons we are getting what we are beyond the control of architects working on these projects.

Additionally, I get the bar lowering and raising argument, but we are a very particular group of people. Most consumers don't care, unfortunately, and so there isn't demand for better design. At least, that's my limited and narrow opinion of the matter. That doesn't mean we should expect less, but unless the general public gets on board with what we are discussing, the bar is going to be 'low'. If people stopped moving into giant boxes or even run of the mill suburban homes/Mcmansions, then maybe developers would try harder. If anything, we need people like you and others interested in this type of thing developing, even small projects, to show what's possible.

[Vitruvius]

What design? There's no design present. There's no consideration for the surrounding character.
Even a box with windows can become a striking contemporary design and play well others when some actual creativity and design is applied.
Is this really the best talent schools of architecture can produce in the 21st century?

I think it fits in great with the surrounding character...*checks notes*... a gas station, taco bell, and a fake weed shop.

This is good infill for the area and is an improvement over the vacant lot. 740 Park Avenue isn't being built in this area.

So, in other words, continue to lower the bar: ignore, overwhelm, and eat away the best characteristics of the area, illustrate desperation using the "anything would be an improvement" excuse. And maybe, as part of the solution, the architecture profession needs to demand more of itself.

I get yours and everyone's qualms about design, but architects on these projects are working within very specific confines of what the developer wants and limited budgets. Unfortunately, they are asked to design 3-5 story boxes. Maybe there is a courtyard or a retail component, but otherwise there is only so much they can do. Yeah, their design choices are often questionable in the context of the neighborhood, but it's not like they can just do whatever they want. I am not trying to justify what we've seen lately (as in the last 10 years) in apartment designs, but there are reasons we are getting what we are beyond the control of architects working on these projects.

Additionally, I get the bar lowering and raising argument, but we are a very particular group of people. Most consumers don't care, unfortunately, and so there isn't demand for better design. At least, that's my limited and narrow opinion of the matter. That doesn't mean we should expect less, but unless the general public gets on board with what we are discussing, the bar is going to be 'low'. If people stopped moving into giant boxes or even run of the mill suburban homes/Mcmansions, then maybe developers would try harder. If anything, we need people like you and others interested in this type of thing developing, even small projects, to show what's possible.

I understand your perspective (and I in no way excuse elected officials or planning officials from their responsibility), but I think architects have a big role to play. If a physician tells a patient they need a treatment to improve their health, the patient usually follows the advice. Architects have a duty to say, I'm sorry, but in good conscience I cannot provide you work of a responsible professional standard within the confines you're demanding and what is an inadequate budget; or what I can do within your confines and budget can't meet your expectations and demands.

[Busguy2010]

At face value, I'm okay with this. It is replacing a broken concrete covered vacant lot. It isn't displacing anyone. This is why I was okay with the Duke, which I think looks better than this, even though its the same concept. At least a better attempt.

Where I'm not okay with this, is its up there with the poorest design attempts in recent years. I think of the building on 41st & Harney and the on at 35th & Dodge, and several others in the area as examples. Then, they will probably be whatever the market rate is (which is inflated) or more. So as I said earlier, I don't think any corners cut are benefitting tenants or surrounding neighbors.

I get what you're saying about constraints. I don't really blame the architects, I blame the developers. I don't buy that this type of design is the most $1,200 rent or 400,000 can buy... The money is going somewhere. Its like they are taking a classic car to Maaco for a paint job, then sell it to someone saying they got it done at the highest regarded paint shop in town. Somethings off with this stuff.

But as I said, on the surface, I can't complain too much about it. I just hope they aren't overpriced, and I hope they tweak the design a bit to fit in better with those types of surrounding buildings I pointed out above - which I think they have plenty of time to do - and it sounded like they would consider the community input they got.

[ita]

New proposed apartment complex in Blackstone area

An apartment building might be popping up in the Blackstone area in the near future.

A meeting was held Tuesday night to discuss the proposed project and inform neighbors on what they can expect. Pictures and layouts of the new 136-unit apartment building were unveiled at the meeting.

It would stand on a vacant lot on the corner of North 39th and Dodge and would include 80 parking spaces. People at the meeting were able to express their opinions and concerns.

”We want to be good neighbors. our biggest thing is we’re Omaha guys, Omaha based firm. It’s a project that will hold on to. We want to fit in and ultimately be good neighbors,” said Mitch Hohlen, Woodsonia Real Estate.

This is the second meeting with residents in the area. Next, the developers will have a meeting with the planning board in early February.

Despite the design issues with this project, the limited parking spaces and community involvement are big pluses.

[Busguy2010]

I definitely think they need to change the design. This is actually Gold Coast, not Blackstone... I know, right next to each other. There are actually some basically mansions in the surrounding blocks next door, and they look great. I think if this goes through as-is, would be an insult.

But all they'd have to do is put a pitched roof on it, and it would fit in better. Yeah, yeah, pitched roofs somehow aren't urban in modern design. I point to the expansion on the Blackstone Hotel as something that was a recent decent attempt.

[Taco]

New proposed apartment complex in Blackstone area

An apartment building might be popping up in the Blackstone area in the near future.

A meeting was held Tuesday night to discuss the proposed project and inform neighbors on what they can expect. Pictures and layouts of the new 136-unit apartment building were unveiled at the meeting.

It would stand on a vacant lot on the corner of North 39th and Dodge and would include 80 parking spaces. People at the meeting were able to express their opinions and concerns.

”We want to be good neighbors. our biggest thing is we’re Omaha guys, Omaha based firm. It’s a project that will hold on to. We want to fit in and ultimately be good neighbors,” said Mitch Hohlen, Woodsonia Real Estate.

This is the second meeting with residents in the area. Next, the developers will have a meeting with the planning board in early February.

Despite the design issues with this project, the limited parking spaces and community involvement are big pluses.

I would guess the limited parking spaces are the neighbors' biggest qualm.

[ita]

Here are the images of this project pulled from news stories.

[iamjacobm]

Hitting the planning board next week. Looks like its being called "The View on 39th"

[nebport5]

Not much of a "view" from those skinny windows. I hope this design is reworked. It's not very homey. I can't help but think of a hotel where you can check out but never leave.

[ita]

https://planning.cityofomaha.org/images ... ary/22.pdf

136 units on 4 floors over 1 floor of parking. There's 100 parking spaces total, including on street. TOD-2-MX zoning.

[Vitruvius]

https://planning.cityofomaha.org/images ... ary/22.pdf

136 units on 4 floors over 1 floor of parking. There's 100 parking spaces total, including on street. TOD-2-MX zoning.

Portions of the project review are unprofessional. The "design" is incompatible with the Joslyn Castle neighborhood and 39th Street.

[WBR_Tom]

More details on this project from the Nebraska Examiner:

https://nebraskaexaminer.com/2022/02/02 ... and-dodge/

Looks like the design of the building itself will not change, but access to it will.

"To avoid traffic visibility problems from increased traffic, Public Works officials have recommended removing access from both 39th Street on the east and an alleyway to Dodge Street on the west and converting both areas into landscaped green spaces.

They expect those steps to add to the aesthetic appeal along Dodge."

[nebport5]

More details on this project from the Nebraska Examiner:

https://nebraskaexaminer.com/2022/02/02 ... and-dodge/

Looks like the design of the building itself will not change, but access to it will.

"To avoid traffic visibility problems from increased traffic, Public Works officials have recommended removing access from both 39th Street on the east and an alleyway to Dodge Street on the west and converting both areas into landscaped green spaces.

They expect those steps to add to the aesthetic appeal along Dodge."

$27 million apartments may rise on old eyesore hotel site at 39th and Dodge

When I read the article title above I couldn't help but think of The Onion...$27 million eyesore apartments may rise on old eyesore hotel.

Good to see some design criticism getting some press.

Design is criticized
Joseph Piper is at least one Omahan who has registered alarm with the city. He said an improvement that would make the infill project more “responsible” is to build on a slightly reduced footprint set back farther from 39th Street.

“This plan’s design can only be described as utilitarian,” Piper said in a letter. “The design and materials have not been given adequate consideration. Neither blend or juxtapose in a complementary manner with the surrounding architecture.”

I was thinking it looks institutional, but yes, its a "great" project yada yada yada..

[S.O.Boy]

"To avoid traffic visibility problems from increased traffic, Public Works officials have recommended removing access from both 39th Street on the east and an alleyway to Dodge Street on the west and converting both areas into landscaped green spaces.

Hopefully Public Works officials have an idea on what to do at 40th & Davenport to avoid traffic visibility problems from increased traffic.

[daveoma]

I can't tell from the rendering where one would enter the parking garage of the building. If visibility problems were going to occur, does that mean that the building is going to be very close to Dodge?

[ita]

I can't tell from the rendering where one would enter the parking garage of the building. If visibility problems were going to occur, does that mean that the building is going to be very close to Dodge?

According to the planning board submission, residents would turn into a driveway at the north side of the building, with garage access there. Additionally, setback on Dodge is minimal.

[Vitruvius]

Where on Dodge has a street been permanently blocked and converted into a parking lot to service an apartment complex? Particularly in a historic district. Will the next step be to close 39th on the South side and turn that into a perpendicular parking lot?
Is this permission to start doing the same thing all along Dodge, at 38th AVE, 41st ST, and so on and on and on?

[MadJack]

Where on Dodge has a street been permanently blocked and converted into a parking lot to service an apartment complex? Particularly in a historic district. Will the next step be to close 39th on the South side and turn that into a perpendicular parking lot?
Is this permission to start doing the same thing all along Dodge, at 38th AVE, 41st ST, and so on and on and on?

You might be a little dramatic in your comments but you bring up a good point. We have to be very careful about limiting connectivity in urban areas.

[S.O.Boy]

I can't tell from the rendering where one would enter the parking garage of the building.

North side at the West end of building.

[Vitruvius]

More details on this project from the Nebraska Examiner:

https://nebraskaexaminer.com/2022/02/02 ... and-dodge/

Looks like the design of the building itself will not change, but access to it will.

"To avoid traffic visibility problems from increased traffic, Public Works officials have recommended removing access from both 39th Street on the east and an alleyway to Dodge Street on the west and converting both areas into landscaped green spaces.

They expect those steps to add to the aesthetic appeal along Dodge."

That rendering is purposefully misleading, concealing the proposed parking lot made from 39th Street.

[Busguy2010]

There is so much I don't like about this proposal, that I would prefer it sit until a better one can come along. I want a better looking building, and I'm not a fan of that idea to close 39th for what actually will just be a parking lot, under the disguise of it being a "pedestrian promenade" or whatever they called it. This thing just continues to disappoint at every turn.

I somewhat think there is a rush to push this through as cheaply and quickly as possible so as to take advantage of the market. In 2, 3 or 5 years, when the floor falls out underneath the market, they wouldn't be able to charge anywhere near what the market rate is today, so I feel like the lack of design is a bit of a contingency...? Lock in the leases ASAP and as cheap as possible. Maybe. Seems believable to me.

[Vitruvius]

Can someone legitimately explain why they can't build something two stories higher, on a smaller footprint, with a two-level podium of parking, respect the established setbacks of the homes on 39th Street and leave 39th open, and truly create a compliment to the historic neighborhood? A smaller footprint and two extra stories would be significantly less overpowering and invasive if done correctly.
Converting that alley to turf on the west will be an invitation for people problems.

[Athomsfere]

Can someone legitimately explain why they can't build something two stories higher, on a smaller footprint, with a two-level podium of parking, respect the established setbacks of the homes on 39th Street and leave 39th open, and truly create a compliment to the historic neighborhood? A smaller footprint and two extra stories would be significantly less overpowering and invasive if done correctly.
Converting that alley to turf on the west will be an invitation for people problems.

It would likely require steel, for one. Bringing the cost way up.

Same with setbacks. Decrease the minimum land area, increase the cost per square foot.

[Vitruvius]

Can someone legitimately explain why they can't build something two stories higher, on a smaller footprint, with a two-level podium of parking, respect the established setbacks of the homes on 39th Street and leave 39th open, and truly create a compliment to the historic neighborhood? A smaller footprint and two extra stories would be significantly less overpowering and invasive if done correctly.
Converting that alley to turf on the west will be an invitation for people problems.

It would likely require steel, for one. Bringing the cost way up.

Same with setbacks. Decrease the minimum land area, increase the cost per square foot.

Even better quality requires greater resources. If the practice of throwing 4 stories on a podium bulging at parcel's edge continues, the landscape is in for a bleak future.

[Athomsfere]

Can someone legitimately explain why they can't build something two stories higher, on a smaller footprint, with a two-level podium of parking, respect the established setbacks of the homes on 39th Street and leave 39th open, and truly create a compliment to the historic neighborhood? A smaller footprint and two extra stories would be significantly less overpowering and invasive if done correctly.
Converting that alley to turf on the west will be an invitation for people problems.

It would likely require steel, for one. Bringing the cost way up.

Same with setbacks. Decrease the minimum land area, increase the cost per square foot.

Even better quality requires greater resources. If the practice of throwing 4 stories on a podium bulging at parcel's edge continues, the landscape is in for a bleak future.

I have no issue with them going right to the sidewalk / easements. It's worked for centuries around the world and looks great:










You could argue that these buildings are bland, and I'd agree. But buildings should be functional first, and fill a need. These do that.
The sooner we start fixing our city with denser, more walkable blocks the sooner interesting infill will come.

Blocking every development because it through NIMYism only keeps good development away.

[TransitOriented]

Can someone legitimately explain why they can't build something two stories higher, on a smaller footprint, with a two-level podium of parking, respect the established setbacks of the homes on 39th Street and leave 39th open, and truly create a compliment to the historic neighborhood? A smaller footprint and two extra stories would be significantly less overpowering and invasive if done correctly.
Converting that alley to turf on the west will be an invitation for people problems.

You mean, pretty much exactly like the building that used to be there?

[Vitruvius]

Can someone legitimately explain why they can't build something two stories higher, on a smaller footprint, with a two-level podium of parking, respect the established setbacks of the homes on 39th Street and leave 39th open, and truly create a compliment to the historic neighborhood? A smaller footprint and two extra stories would be significantly less overpowering and invasive if done correctly.
Converting that alley to turf on the west will be an invitation for people problems.

It would likely require steel, for one. Bringing the cost way up.

Same with setbacks. Decrease the minimum land area, increase the cost per square foot.

Even better quality requires greater resources. If the practice of throwing 4 stories on a podium bulging at parcel's edge continues, the landscape is in for a bleak future.

I have no issue with them going right to the sidewalk / easements. It's worked for centuries around the world and looks great:










You could argue that these buildings are bland, and I'd agree. But buildings should be functional first, and fill a need. These do that.
The sooner we start fixing our city with denser, more walkable blocks the sooner interesting infill will come.

Blocking every development because it through NIMYism only keeps good development away.

No NIMBYism. It's bad design, completely out of scale, with a goal of short-term efficiency rather than long-term productivity. The examples posted have no association to 39th and Dodge. Not the same type of streets. Not Manhattan or Boston or a European town square. Creating a "more walkable block" doesn't happen by adding on-street parking and more off-street parking as the podium of an apartment building. Closing 39th street only reinforces Dodge as a highway. Building to the sidewalk on Dodge is fine but misguided as Dodge is essentially a highway, and there will be no building entrance on Dodge. Maybe take the half-baked thinking further and isolate Dodge at every minor intersection from the river to 90th Street.
39th Street is comprised of large homes or homes/apartments all sharing the same setback, an essential characteristic of the street. The established setback should be followed and respected. That is even documented in the Master Plan.
Nothing about the plan and design integrates with the district. Tri-plexes, or duplexes or a taller building with an aligned setback could be built, but of course that would require more consideration, actual design, and doesn't provide the wealth and breaks to the developer.
Building without any regard for established surroundings is not intelligent. This is only about short-term gains for the developer not long-term productivity for the district and city.