Speculation by the High Obsessed

SolitaryMan · Post by **SolitaryMan** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:52 am

All this talk of a 25-30 story condo project at the UP site has got me thinking....who could be the next possible corporate tower to build downtonw?

First of all, it's going to have to be a corporate tower - a hi-rise office tower just won't cut it, especially with the office vacancy downtown already.

FirstNational is done building downtown for a while.

UP is done building downtown for, probably another 100 years.

CommFederal seems to be content out west.

Valmont has a beautiful building out west, and I don't think they want to be downtown - they'd rather be near their Valley facility.

Mutual isn't leaving midtown.

I don't see Qwest building anything in Omaha like this.

Berkshire isn't likely to build anything in Omaha...

Who does this leave? Peter Kiewit? I suppose that's my best bet.

Any other ideas?

OmahaDevelopmentMan · Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:04 am

Ameritrade- They're going to be about twice as large with their buyout of TD Waterhouse, so I think they can support one.

Berkshire-They have less than 300 employees(pretty shocking for being in the F500 top 10), so I don't see them needing anything. I would see them possibly buying space in downtown eventually.

Commercial Federal-With the buy out by Bank of the West, I highly doubt they will build anything new for a while.

Con Agra- They seem to be happy with their suburban campus in downtown. If they leave, they will pry end up bulling their way into some land somewhere.

First National- We pry won't see anything from them for 20 years or so. They seem to be the type of company that likes a new headquarters every few years.

Kiewit- I'm not too sure about them. Since they rescently dropped out of the F500 list, they have more important things to worry about than what kind of office building they're in.

Mutual- With them building their new mixed use project next to their Midtown campus, I doubt they will ever leave. They seem to relly like Midtown.

Pacific Life- I think if they like being in Omaha they may consider moving more jobs here. I wouldn't rule them out 5-10 years from now.

Union Pacific- If they do discide to in the next 20 years, I would be absolutely shocked.

Val Mont- They have a real nice set up in their West Dodge office, if anything happens I doubt it will be anytime soon(10-15 years).

So basically, my guess would be Ameritrade or Pacific Life. Don't forget about Bob's mystery company too

icejammer · Post by **icejammer** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:52 am

SolitaryMan wrote:Who does this leave? Peter Kiewit? I suppose that's my best bet.

I would guess that Kiewit is a possibility, but if I were a betting man, I would bet on them expanding their domain at Kiewit Plaza in midtown, alongside Mutual.

I guess I just don't see anyone that's a major player in Omaha that's not downtown already making the move downtown, not in the next 10-20 years anyway. Ameritrade could be the exception, I suppose, but not until they move their focus more to brick and mortar outlets.

My money would be on a financial institution (banking, insurance, commodities, investments) consolidating operations into a new headquarters. Right now, it would appear that Pacific Life, as OmahaDevelopmentMan mentions, would best fit that bill, but I have my doubts that happens. Anyone with feelers out there in the financial world know of some big players looking to merge and consolidate?

Bob from Omaha · Post by **Bob from Omaha** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 12:08 pm

I'd bet that any new highrise would be residential, and sooner than you might think. With regard to highrise office, I wouldn't bet on Ameritrade, Kiewit or anybody else doing anything downtown.

Look for housing and lodging announcements in the near future.

icejammer · Post by **icejammer** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:17 pm

Bob from Omaha wrote:I'd bet that any new highrise would be residential, and sooner than you might think.

No doubt, but we're just speculating on SolitaryMan's post of the next corporate tower. I think the residential tower is almost a given for the next high-rise DT.

Post by **Brad** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:14 pm

for more reading on this subject there some old forums on this topic.

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:01 pm

Enter the King.

I think Mutual will get a new building eventually. That building is falling apart.

- A lot of the plumbing is being redone in the bathrooms and has been leaking water out onto the floors.

- When my department is given to WPS from Madison, they will move a few hundred jobs here (200 max).

- They are already squeezing people in and moving people around in the building to make room for more people.

- The Dome and Building #4 underneath it (4 HUGE underground stories) may be removed. I don't know if anyone saw the pictures I posted from under the Dome, but there are trees that are under there. I thought they were fake until 2 weeks ago when they put in the Mutual paper that they were closing the dome for renovations. But once they got in there they realized the problem was much worse. The trees roots were growing into the ceiling of the building beneath it. Water was also ruining spots in the roof and the amounts of mold could be a health hazard. So having to move those people from B#4 to the main buildings would take up alot of room too.

- Also due to the sheer shitiness of the inside I think our most famous company (well maybe that's debatable with UP) should have a fancier building. First National was great.

Which kind of brings me to my next point about why DT could handle one big office tower. Alot of the buildings DT are old and in the same shape or worse shape than Mutual. Does anyone remember what Coyotes friend said about 24th and Dodge? So I wouldn't expect anyone who's not DT-centric to pick and out of date office building when new ones with all the new stuff is going out west.

A new office tower would go along way into keeping the DT momentum going. They did it in the 80's with may "favorite" red twins so why couldn't it be done now.

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:46 pm

I'd like the next major skyscraper to be a hotel. And by major, I do mean taller than 500 ft.

OmahaChef · Post by **OmahaChef** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:52 pm

The last time I was in the Mutual buildings was about 3 years ago, but I was surprised the interior doesn't match the exterior. I worked for First National for three years, and traveled up to the old NNG building a lot for meetings. It is a dump inside. Horribly chopped up, dingy, not at all atractive. I'd love to see another downtown office building, I just don't want to see yet another 15 story building to match all the other 15 story buildings.

eomaha · Post by **eomaha** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:42 pm

I wouldn't bet on a 500 foot hotel in Omaha (unless perhaps it's of the variety which has both condos and hotel rooms, maybe even some office space) ... a 300 footer perhaps.

Swift · Post by **Swift** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:52 pm

I'd like to see a major hotel as well. A Hyatt maybe.

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 1:59 pm

Exactly, Bob.

And I agree with you, Jeff. It would have to be a mixed use building.

In fact speaking of that.....strange.....I had a dream the other night that Sharaton Hotel took over part of the FNC's leaseable space.....weird.

Raraavis · Post by **Raraavis** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 2:43 pm

StreetsOfOmaha wrote:I'd like the next major skyscraper to be a hotel. And by major, I do mean taller than 500 ft.

DT Omaha already has an over-abundance of hotel rooms. The Hilton will be expanding in the next few years and a new hotel is being built at the Tip Top/Inplay sight. I would be surprised to see any other upscale hotel development in downtown Omaha anytime soon.

There may be a room for a mid-market hotel (Holiday Inn Express/AmericInn) downtown but that is more likely to be 50 ft tall not 500 ft tall.

Big E · Post by **Big E** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 3:02 pm

The Venetian, perhaps? ;)

-Big E

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 6:04 pm

jhuston wrote:I wouldn't bet on a 500 foot hotel in Omaha (unless perhaps it's of the variety which has both condos and hotel rooms, maybe even some office space) ... a 300 footer perhaps.

Isn't this what we're holding out for for the Swanson Site?

I would like to see any new building btwn 400'-500' feet.

eomaha · Post by **eomaha** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 6:50 pm

I would like to see any new building btwn 400'-500' feet

Well gee whiz... wouldn't we all.

GoWest · Post by **GoWest** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 8:09 pm

I don’t know why but I just have a feeling that I wouldn’t completely count Ameritrade out of a good sized building downtown. In the investment/financial business, sometimes customers can be impressed by the facilities of a company they do business with (look at all of the impressive bank buildings). It gives the impression of success and power if the company has a fancy building. Ameritrade would look more successful and more like a player with a new building. Also with all of the mergers in the securities industry, Ameritrade might think about investing in a new headquarters with the hope of keeping the new merged company’s headquarters in Omaha. It might make it harder to choose NYC or Toronto if they had something nice (a large investment as well) in Omaha as opposed to what they currently have. It may not be the size of the FNC, but a good sized building none the less. I tend to agree with most though, that the next few large buildings will be residential. Just my two cents worth.

OmahaChef · Post by **OmahaChef** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 8:52 pm

Aside from Finn's Harney Street project (Residence Inn + condos), and the possible UP site condo tower, I think the Swanson/Pinnacle site has the greatest potential to produce a tall tower, or even towers. It is a large piece of real estate, and I could envision an out of town developer configuring a large mixed use project on the site, possibly including retail, parking, office, entertainment, hotel, and condo in one or more towers. I've seen big developers in other cities using a space like this to create a large multiple use complex, and at 3 1/2 arces, this property has the ability to be used for a similar development. Now, to get the right developer to bite!

Finn · Post by **Finn** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 11:51 pm

And the City has ben stressing mixed-use for the Swanson site.

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 1:01 am

I agree OmahaChef. And I'm also expecting something spectacular from Bluestone at the Butternut Site. So that's four possible highrises that are securely on the radar.

And I have to agree, GoWest about , now, TD Ameritrade. They need some new digs. Honestly. A former shopping mall in Bellevue and a glorified warehouse at 90th and I. A company like that needs a symbol, a focal point. The steaks are even higher now that they have purchased TD Waterhouse, a Toronto company. I totally agree. I would not rule them out. If anything, the merger makes it that much more likely, and could possibly have been what they were wating for.

eomaha · Post by **eomaha** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:03 am

I guess I'm the only one who thinks the Swanson site is a horrible location for a highrise, sitting right alongside the interstate bridge. I'm expecting midrises at the Butternut and Finn's site. That way I won't be disappointed like Aaron often is.

And I hate to play devils advocate here, but hasn't anyone noticed that Toronto Dominion Bank stands to be the majority holder in TD Ameritrade and they will have the most appointed directors on the new board? I'm not sure that we have been assured a headquarters staying in Omaha... as much as just a substantial number of jobs (ie the Southroads call center). I hope I'm wrong, but with Moglia reportedly to step down sometime in the relatively near future, I wonder who will have the most influence in future decision making... the Ricketts family or Toronto Dominion. Here's to hoping I'm way off base.

Finn · Post by **Finn** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:26 am

I agree jhuston as I think the Swanson site will be mixed-use but not a high-rise as mentioned before: "I believe a mixed-use development will go on the Swanson site but that it would not be a grandiose hi-rise (also met with disagreement) . I just hope that people aren’t too disappointed with a new retail/residential development that will transform the northern edge of downtown just because it isn’t 500 feet tall (harkening back to the continual Marriott envy!)". I also agree that this is more appropriate for this site. The other two sites will be taller (15-30 stories).

Big E · Post by **Big E** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:39 am

J-

It should be noted that while TD will become the largest shareholder in Ameritrade, they are by no means the majority shareholder. It's a very important difference.

From Bob's release in another thread:

- TD Bank Financial Group has agreed, with certain exceptions, to limit their ownership to a maximum of 39.9 percent for three years from the closing and to a maximum of 45 percent from years four through ten. J. Joe Ricketts has agreed to limit the family ownership to 29 percent for ten years from closing.

It may all prove to be irrelevant over time, but TD would have to drum up a LOT of support in the near tearm to move out of town.

-Big E

projectman · Post by **projectman** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 1:16 pm

I remember Kenneth Lay saying that back in 1986 the Enron headquarters would remain in Omaha too. Look what happened. That still burns my |expletive|. I keep hoping he will get his day in court and will have to serve 10 years in prison. Jerk.

loyalomahan · Post by **loyalomahan** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 1:23 pm

Big E... maybe that initial release didnt tell the whole story.

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_pg=46& ... rnd=419110

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:22 pm

E and Finn, how in god's name can you say that you don't think that site is appropriate for a high rise???? Is there ANY plot of land downtown that's not appropriate for a high rise? Well, I don't think so.

I won't be disapointed if it's not a highrise as long as it is quality development, which it sounds like it will be. That doesn't stop me from hoping for the best though.

Finn · Post by **Finn** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:53 pm

It's not that I don't think it is appropriate for a high-rise, it's that I don't think it will be a high-rise (as dictated by the market). But, I do not think that is such a bad thing as I don't believe every plot of land in the CBD should be a high-rise.

DTO Luv · Post by **DTO Luv** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 6:08 pm

I think it should be a highrise (swanson) BECAUSE it's by the interstate. If it wasn't it would be the Hilton all over again. No one wants to look out right at the road so going up makes sense. I'm not a pro like you Finn but some things shoudl just be common sense.

About TDAmtrade- I don't think a new building is out of the question. Alomost every city in Canada has a tall TD building. I'll find them later to show you.

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:06 pm

That's cool, Finn. I just wanted to confirm since eomaha said he thinks it's a horrible location for a high rise, and you agreed. I can understand the perspective of just not thinking it will happen, because, heck, it probably won't. But to not aknowledge it as an awesome location for a skyscraper doesn't make sense to me.

Bob from Omaha · Post by **Bob from Omaha** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:18 pm

So a highrise gets built by an interstate...what's the deal? There are tons of buildings built next to the "EL" in Chicago, and it's a lot noisier there than it would be here. People build houses overlooking the interstate. People live in buildings in the old market.

I just don't see such a horrible thing in a building near or next to the interstate.

Maybe its just me.

eomaha · Post by **eomaha** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:49 pm

Well when space in downtown Omaha becomes as high a premium as it is in Chicago... I can see a highrise going on that property.

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 9:25 pm

You still need to explain why you think that's not a good spot, Jeff.

eomaha · Post by **eomaha** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 11:16 pm

I did in my initial post.

sitting right alongside the interstate bridge

That's my opinion. If I'm someone who has the resources to build a highrise... I don't build it alongside an interstate bridge. There are numerous locations around downtown I'd rather build on. But that's just me.

And yes, as Bob pointed out, there are highrises along the El in Chicago (which is hardly a good comparison, given IT'S an asset... rather than a liability... I mean are you going to step outside your building and hop onto the interstate?) ... but there aren't/weren't numerous locations to build a highrise in Chicago's loop either.

Again, just my opinion. I'll be ecstatic should someone build a highrise on the Swanson property. I just don't think it's going to happen (and I'm going to be nearly as happy should someone simply build a nice mixed use development which complements the immediate area).

Post by **Omaha Cowboy** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 1:24 am

Three 500 footers with all the bells and whistles..

Or maybe its just the ringing in my head

..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

redfield · Post by **redfield** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 12:37 pm

I don't understand how any developer could afford to come in and do anything less than high-rise(s) at the swanson site. They will have spent over 7 million just to get the ground ready to develop.

I see a twin tower mixed-use development there.

StreetsOfOmaha · Post by **StreetsOfOmaha** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 1:13 pm

That would be nice, redfield.

And Jeff, I didn't realize building a highrise next to an interstate was such a feaux pas. Sure there are lots of great options for highrises elsewhere downtown, but we're talking about the Swanson site. If anything, it's more imperative to build tall there so that the development isn't OVERSHADOWED by the interstate. That would be tragic, like the Hilton.

the1wags · Post by **the1wags** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:48 pm

Throwing gas on the fire.

edsas · Post by **edsas** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:07 pm

OMG! With a skyline like that, I think we could say welcome to the majors Omaha.

Nice job, wags!

Big E · Post by **Big E** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:10 pm

Kick |expletive|... Vampire buildings!! (no reflection, get it?)

-Big E

the1wags · Post by **the1wags** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:42 pm

Ooops, got me there on the reflections.

The tallest addition to the north is a hotel/condo tower I envision on the SW corner of 11th and Capitol. We really need to fill in that empty lot. I have something in mind for the Swanson site too where shape of the buildings is key, but more on that later.