Civic Square (former Civic Auditorium)

[nebport5]

https://planning.cityofomaha.org/images ... une/20.pdf

Preliminary Plat approval. Nothing super exciting. For some reason, when I they revealed they were introducing the grid into the development, I was thinking Davenport was going to go from 19th to 17th. Completely forgot that the parking garage doesn't allow that. Also, while the vehicular grid is welcome and, according to the developer, needed, the new ROW is composed of 77k sq. ft. I get retailers want parking in front of storefronts, but if they made it a bike/ped. accessible grid, they could of had an additional 30-50k sq. ft. to use for development (based on 20-40 foot wide ROW). Streets are planned for this square, so it's just a thought.

Interesting that the grocery component says "Fresh Market". I don't recall that from the earlier renderings.

[Athomsfere]

https://planning.cityofomaha.org/images ... une/20.pdf

Preliminary Plat approval. Nothing super exciting. For some reason, when I they revealed they were introducing the grid into the development, I was thinking Davenport was going to go from 19th to 17th. Completely forgot that the parking garage doesn't allow that. Also, while the vehicular grid is welcome and, according to the developer, needed, the new ROW is composed of 77k sq. ft. I get retailers want parking in front of storefronts, but if they made it a bike/ped. accessible grid, they could of had an additional 30-50k sq. ft. to use for development (based on 20-40 foot wide ROW). Streets are planned for this square, so it's just a thought.

Interesting that the grocery component says "Fresh Market". I don't recall that from the earlier renderings.

It was there. But a lot of Fresh Markets are out there. I assume they just expect this to appeal to that style of market / demographic

[nebport5]

https://planning.cityofomaha.org/images ... une/20.pdf

Preliminary Plat approval. Nothing super exciting. For some reason, when I they revealed they were introducing the grid into the development, I was thinking Davenport was going to go from 19th to 17th. Completely forgot that the parking garage doesn't allow that. Also, while the vehicular grid is welcome and, according to the developer, needed, the new ROW is composed of 77k sq. ft. I get retailers want parking in front of storefronts, but if they made it a bike/ped. accessible grid, they could of had an additional 30-50k sq. ft. to use for development (based on 20-40 foot wide ROW). Streets are planned for this square, so it's just a thought.

Interesting that the grocery component says "Fresh Market". I don't recall that from the earlier renderings.

It was there. But a lot of Fresh Markets are out there. I assume they just expect this to appeal to that style of market / demographic

You do realize that it's the name of an actual store?

[ita]

There's a couple things going on in the City Council agenda on July 25th related to this project.

First, the City amended the purchase agreement. Some items of note include a term stating that parties agree to close 30 days after it is signed. Additionally, the developer has two years to start construction after date of closing. "Start construction" is defined as follows:

the commencement of the construction of the footings, foundations and/or road work for a minimum of fifty percent of the total proposed infrastructure and building structures or fifty percent of the proposed building structures.

https://cityclerk.cityofomaha.org/image ... -43475.pdf

Second, the City Council is going to approve the preliminary plat. As we all know, they are incorporating through streets that will need to be dedicated for public use, including new side street parking and sidewalk ROW's. The package shows the most clear/large renderings of the project so far.

https://cityclerk.cityofomaha.org/image ... -0683a.pdf

While I would like something bigger than 4+1's here, I am just excited to see movement here. As we've seen with the Builder's District, plans can change, sometimes for the better. I am hoping that some of these multi-residential buildings get a little taller, closer to capitol district heights. Anyway, likely won't see anything happening here for at least a year, and then, probably just work on streets.

[thenewguy]

looks good. i wasn't a fan at first, but looks good after reviewing it

[MTO]

I get the city wants the tax revenue but they should have held out for more fright. Even if they had to develop block by block.

[nebugeater]

I get the city wants the tax revenue but they should have held out for more fright. Even if they had to develop block by block.

How much scarier does It need to be? Really don't see the need for Fright.

[halgy]

I'll always wish for more density, but IMO that location is just far enough from downtown proper that slightly less density is alright. I'm just glad it is mixed-use. I'm happy to see the apartments that are built all over town, but unhappy that they're a mile from anything, so residents still need to drive for everything. Just put a coffee shop and a C-store in one of those apartment complexes and they'd become 2x as livable.

My feelings might change on this development if they end running a streetcar extension up 19th, like was suggested here. If that happens, I think they'd be silly not to go for more density.

[nebport5]

I'll always wish for more density, but IMO that location is just far enough from downtown proper that slightly less density is alright. I'm just glad it is mixed-use. I'm happy to see the apartments that are built all over town, but unhappy that they're a mile from anything, so residents still need to drive for everything. Just put a coffee shop and a C-store in one of those apartment complexes and they'd become 2x as livable.

My feelings might change on this development if they end running a streetcar extension up 19th, like was suggested here. If that happens, I think they'd be silly not to go for more density.

Is it really that far? A block away from this site is One First National which you surely would say is in downtown proper or the CBD. I think the lack of amenities you're referencing is what may make this site feel further away. Downtown continues to redevelop and grow westward. In the last ten years or so The Wire Apartments, Slate Apartments, and Hotel Indigo have contributed to the renewal downtown just south of this site. If Civic Square is relatively successful I think it'll go a long way towards making the area feel more cohesive with the downtown core.

[Athomsfere]

I think when we are looking at the inner downtown area and we aren't seeing 40% or more parking lots, we can worry more about being picky.

Meaningful infill and groceries is far more important IMO than a highrise.

[thenewguy]

It's also worth mentioning that this will be a destination for those who live downtown. Right now, everything pulls you towards the east part of downtown with capitol and the old market. There are a lot of folks who would go here, especially with the lifestyle center and grocery and sort of even out downtown, I feel. I'd love a big ol' tower, too, but this oughta for sure help the heartbeat of downtown

[skip]

It's also worth mentioning that this will be a destination for those who live downtown. Right now, everything pulls you towards the east part of downtown with capitol and the old market. There are a lot of folks who would go here, especially with the lifestyle center and grocery and sort of even out downtown, I feel. I'd love a big ol' tower, too, but this oughta for sure help the heartbeat of downtown

I agree. There are a good amount of apartment complexes near the Civic site as well (Bank, Highline, Wire, etc) and that's not even including the Creighton dorms just to the south and west of the site. As someone who lived in the Highline for a couple years, I can say that there aren't many food, grocery, gyms, or other amentities that are close to west downtown.

I personally think this project will kickstart some energy back into west downtown and hopefully some future developments are announced to fill in the vacant parking lots around the Highline buildings and Farnam Hill areas.

[Greg S]

It's also worth mentioning that this will be a destination for those who live downtown. Right now, everything pulls you towards the east part of downtown with capitol and the old market. There are a lot of folks who would go here, especially with the lifestyle center and grocery and sort of even out downtown, I feel. I'd love a big ol' tower, too, but this oughta for sure help the heartbeat of downtown

I agree. There are a good amount of apartment complexes near the Civic site as well (Bank, Highline, Wire, etc) and that's not even including the Creighton dorms just to the south and west of the site. As someone who lived in the Highline for a couple years, I can say that there aren't many food, grocery, gyms, or other amentities that are close to west downtown.

I personally think this project will kickstart some energy back into west downtown and hopefully some future developments are announced to fill in the vacant parking lots around the Highline buildings and Farnam Hill areas.

Looking forward to seeing the final renderings but I agree and think this project just fits that area so well. I do think with CU, Central and all the apartments in the area a grocery store will do well there.

I am very excited to see this get started.

[ita]

It's also worth mentioning that this will be a destination for those who live downtown. Right now, everything pulls you towards the east part of downtown with capitol and the old market. There are a lot of folks who would go here, especially with the lifestyle center and grocery and sort of even out downtown, I feel. I'd love a big ol' tower, too, but this oughta for sure help the heartbeat of downtown

I agree. There are a good amount of apartment complexes near the Civic site as well (Bank, Highline, Wire, etc) and that's not even including the Creighton dorms just to the south and west of the site. As someone who lived in the Highline for a couple years, I can say that there aren't many food, grocery, gyms, or other amentities that are close to west downtown.

I personally think this project will kickstart some energy back into west downtown and hopefully some future developments are announced to fill in the vacant parking lots around the Highline buildings and Farnam Hill areas.

Looking forward to seeing the final renderings but I agree and think this project just fits that area so well. I do think with CU, Central and all the apartments in the area a grocery store will do well there.

I am very excited to see this get started.

Everyone that hopes for more height/density, keep in mind that White Lotus will have two years after the deal closes to "start construction." Starting construction can mean they've done 50% of the public infrastructure, meaning in two years from now, the streets are being completed. While that might not be the most exciting thing, it might also give the plan some time to evolve, ala Crossroads or the Builders District. The Civic Site under White Lotus has already gone through significant changes from the initial plans two years ago. Two years from now, the streetcar will be on the verge of operating; we don't know for sure yet, other than some rumblings, about what kind of private investment and interest that will bring along the route and possibly in other areas of the urban core, like the Civic Site. Anyway, aside from some elements like the new street grid, grocery store and office component, I am expecting this to change once built out.

[Jins123]

Love a gym proposal in this as well. A grocery store is understandably a high priority for the downtown area, but the gym options are few downtown. The Y is nice, Orange Fitness is sort of niche. Downtown IMO could use another option.

[Louie]

Love a gym proposal in this as well. A grocery store is understandably a high priority for the downtown area, but the gym options are few downtown. The Y is nice, Orange Fitness is sort of niche. Downtown IMO could use another option.

Couldn’t agree more.

[Cermak]

This should really help the western part of downtown. And be a convenient option for Creighton students, especially those without a car. Most of downtown's amenities like restaurants and entertainment are currently east of 16th st. Looking forward to this much needed project, the best part we will get rid of a large out of place looking downtown lawn.

[halgy]

Love a gym proposal in this as well. A grocery store is understandably a high priority for the downtown area, but the gym options are few downtown. The Y is nice, Orange Fitness is sort of niche. Downtown IMO could use another option.

There is also Anytime Fitness on 10th and Jones (in the Old Market Lofts), but it is so small that it barely counts. Totally agree it would be nice to have another option.

[Athomsfere]

When I lived at the wire, I just rode my bike to the Genesis at MTC.

Not that another full gym hurts.

[nebport5]

Developers of Omaha's old Civic Auditorium site plan apartments, hope for downtown grocery

The council voted 6-0 to sell the site, near 17th Street and Capitol Avenue, for $1.36 million. They previously had agreed to sell it for about $1.5 million. The council also voted to approve the group's preliminary plat for the 9-acre tract, which includes street layout and general plans for what will be built there. More detailed plans are yet to be submitted, and are likely to include changes.

The current plan envisions a grocery store could be built right next to the existing city parking garage on the southwest quadrant. Developers are "contemplating an urban grocer, 15,000-30,000 square feet is kind of the target, with residential above it," Kline said.

Festersen asked Agarwal if the grocery store is "definitive, or is that still a work in progress?"

"I think the best way to answer that is the entire project is a work in progress, and will always be," Agarwal replied.

Not a whole lot of news here but a 15k sq ft store would only be a smidge bigger than the Trader Joe's at O.P.P.

[jjjjhskr]

Developers of Omaha's old Civic Auditorium site plan apartments, hope for downtown grocery

The council voted 6-0 to sell the site, near 17th Street and Capitol Avenue, for $1.36 million. They previously had agreed to sell it for about $1.5 million. The council also voted to approve the group's preliminary plat for the 9-acre tract, which includes street layout and general plans for what will be built there. More detailed plans are yet to be submitted, and are likely to include changes.

The current plan envisions a grocery store could be built right next to the existing city parking garage on the southwest quadrant. Developers are "contemplating an urban grocer, 15,000-30,000 square feet is kind of the target, with residential above it," Kline said.

Festersen asked Agarwal if the grocery store is "definitive, or is that still a work in progress?"

"I think the best way to answer that is the entire project is a work in progress, and will always be," Agarwal replied.

Not a whole lot of news here but a 15k sq ft store would only be a smidge bigger than the Trader Joe's at O.P.P.

Any idea how big Patrick’s Market was?

[ita]

Developers of Omaha's old Civic Auditorium site plan apartments, hope for downtown grocery

The council voted 6-0 to sell the site, near 17th Street and Capitol Avenue, for $1.36 million. They previously had agreed to sell it for about $1.5 million. The council also voted to approve the group's preliminary plat for the 9-acre tract, which includes street layout and general plans for what will be built there. More detailed plans are yet to be submitted, and are likely to include changes.

The current plan envisions a grocery store could be built right next to the existing city parking garage on the southwest quadrant. Developers are "contemplating an urban grocer, 15,000-30,000 square feet is kind of the target, with residential above it," Kline said.

Festersen asked Agarwal if the grocery store is "definitive, or is that still a work in progress?"

"I think the best way to answer that is the entire project is a work in progress, and will always be," Agarwal replied.

Not a whole lot of news here but a 15k sq ft store would only be a smidge bigger than the Trader Joe's at O.P.P.

Any idea how big Patrick’s Market was?

8.7k sq. ft. Source: https://www.crexi.com/lease/properties/ ... ard-street

[nebugeater]

As a point of reference on size, the new Fairway that opened in Gretna is about 21,000 Sq Ft. ( Just a little smaller than the new HyVee!)

[nebport5]

Anything under 20k I think would be disappointing. Trader Joe's, while better than nothing, wouldn't be my first choice either. I don't consider it a full service grocery store. Their offering are too niche and I could do without the deliriously happy employees. Is half of the staff really that excited for what I'm making for dinner!?

[thenewguy]

according to this article from a few years ago, Aldi opened an urban format in London, UK.

https://retailwire.com/discussion/aldi- ... ept-store/

Not sure if they are still open or not, but seems to me like they could swing a full size Aldi in there. With the exception of a bakery or floral, there really is most of what you need there.

edit: found this in Philly. in the article, they showcase another chain called Sprouts that looks like it would be a good fit as well, especially with ready-to-eat meals

https://www.winsightgrocerybusiness.com ... ite-philly

[Louie]

according to this article from a few years ago, Aldi opened an urban format in London, UK.

https://retailwire.com/discussion/aldi- ... ept-store/

Not sure if they are still open or not, but seems to me like they could swing a full size Aldi in there. With the exception of a bakery or floral, there really is most of what you need there.

The Civic location would at least 3x the space for that size of store (6400 sq ft).

[Dusty]

Anything under 20k I think would be disappointing. Trader Joe's, while better than nothing, wouldn't be my first choice either. I don't consider it a full service grocery store. Their offering are too niche and I could do without the deliriously happy employees. Is half of the staff really that excited for what I'm making for dinner!?

I like Trader Joes, but get your point about being a specialty or niche store. I think Omaha could support a second location, but don't feel downtown is necessarily the best location. Ideally, I would like to see something the size the former Fresh Thyme was.

Target is currently pushing "tiny" store formats. They are 30-40k with half the space dedicated to grocery. They are targeting areas close to college campuses. Hmm....this is close to Creighton!

[thenewguy]

according to this article from a few years ago, Aldi opened an urban format in London, UK.

https://retailwire.com/discussion/aldi- ... ept-store/

Not sure if they are still open or not, but seems to me like they could swing a full size Aldi in there. With the exception of a bakery or floral, there really is most of what you need there.

The Civic location would at least 3x the space for that size of store (6400 sq ft).

Oh for sure! That's why I was thinking they could install a full scale Aldi in there. I think something with some hot food options or ready to eat meals would do well, especially with the clientele an urban format would attract.

Edit: after continuing to look at different urban type stores, I found a store with offices or living above:

[Louie]

according to this article from a few years ago, Aldi opened an urban format in London, UK.

https://retailwire.com/discussion/aldi- ... ept-store/

Not sure if they are still open or not, but seems to me like they could swing a full size Aldi in there. With the exception of a bakery or floral, there really is most of what you need there.

The Civic location would at least 3x the space for that size of store (6400 sq ft).

Oh for sure! That's why I was thinking they could install a full scale Aldi in there. I think something with some hot food options or ready to eat meals would do well, especially with the clientele an urban format would attract.

Edit: after continuing to look at different urban type stores, I found a store with offices or living above:

Love it.

[nebport5]

Anything under 20k I think would be disappointing. Trader Joe's, while better than nothing, wouldn't be my first choice either. I don't consider it a full service grocery store. Their offering are too niche and I could do without the deliriously happy employees. Is half of the staff really that excited for what I'm making for dinner!?

I like Trader Joes, but get your point about being a specialty or niche store. I think Omaha could support a second location, but don't feel downtown is necessarily the best location. Ideally, I would like to see something the size the former Fresh Thyme was.

Target is currently pushing "tiny" store formats. They are 30-40k with half the space dedicated to grocery. They are targeting areas close to college campuses. Hmm....this is close to Creighton!

I have kind of a love/hate with Trader Joes. Overall though, for me, it's not a one stop grocery shop. In fact I'd be fine with one downtown but if I currently lived in downtown Omaha I'd root first for a store with a more comprehensive offering that prevents me from driving west or to C.B.

I've never cared much for Aldi because I could never buy all(or even the majority) of my groceries there either. Perhaps in 5-10 years(likely closer to ten) it may be reasonable to have more than one grocer competing for downtown business. At this point it's a win to get any decent sized grocer with non-boutiquey hours.

[TitosBuritoBarn]

Oh for sure! That's why I was thinking they could install a full scale Aldi in there. I think something with some hot food options or ready to eat meals would do well, especially with the clientele an urban format would attract.

Edit: after continuing to look at different urban type stores, I found a store with offices or living above:

I used to live a few blocks from that store. It's in Chicago's Bucktown neighborhood. The space above is apartments.

One of the cool things about it is that it used to be a stand alone store with a huge parking lot:

https://goo.gl/maps/fQXbDyRsvwvcfxuQ8

Aldi apparently saw the benefits of having a more urban-oriented store at that location and allowed the store to close for a year or so while the new space was built in its place.

[TitosBuritoBarn]

Trader Joe's is unlikely at the Civic Site. They apparently require a pretty high median income for the surrounding neighborhood, about $100,000 if I understand correctly. I don't believe downtown is there yet.

[Athomsfere]

Trader Joe's is unlikely at the Civic Site. They apparently require a pretty high median income for the surrounding neighborhood, about $100,000 if I understand correctly. I don't believe downtown is there yet.

Median, or mean?

Median, I think it would be. Downtown is some lower income, a ton of mid-to-high income $60 - to low 100s) and then the condo owners, where the condos tend to be, When I was looking and from what I saw $300 - a couple million for units between MTC, SOMA, and the condos on the river.

Mean, yeah it probably averages under that 100k mark.

Unless we meant household? Then gut feeling it would be fine.

Just double checked the incomes, and it appears 68114 and 68102 are both in the mid 60's.

[Cermak]

Trader Joe's is unlikely at the Civic Site. They apparently require a pretty high median income for the surrounding neighborhood, about $100,000 if I understand correctly. I don't believe downtown is there yet.

The Traders Joes in Omaha is always pretty crowded. Seldom do I go there and it's empty. Could see another one in Omaha at some point but probably be out farther west in the Elkhorn area. They don't seem to be in a big rush to build more stores. Doubt they would go downtown.

[Athomsfere]

Trader Joe's is unlikely at the Civic Site. They apparently require a pretty high median income for the surrounding neighborhood, about $100,000 if I understand correctly. I don't believe downtown is there yet.

The Traders Joes in Omaha is always pretty crowded. Seldom do I go there and it's empty. Could see another one in Omaha at some point but probably be out farther west in the Elkhorn area. They don't seem to be in a big rush to build more stores. Doubt they would go downtown.

Why is that?

Elkhorn is entirely too small, Trader Joe's seems to like the Urban format.

Plus, the downtown / midtown demographic is surely more their target demographic. Hip foods, cheap wine and good wines, a wall of cheese and some good ready to heat meals.

Versus West O and Elkhorn being more like 4 kids and a mandatory Sams Club / Costco trip every other week to stock the deep freezer.

[Dusty]

Trader Joe's is unlikely at the Civic Site. They apparently require a pretty high median income for the surrounding neighborhood, about $100,000 if I understand correctly. I don't believe downtown is there yet.

The Traders Joes in Omaha is always pretty crowded. Seldom do I go there and it's empty. Could see another one in Omaha at some point but probably be out farther west in the Elkhorn area. They don't seem to be in a big rush to build more stores. Doubt they would go downtown.

Why is that?

Elkhorn is entirely too small, Trader Joe's seems to like the Urban format.

Plus, the downtown / midtown demographic is surely more their target demographic. Hip foods, cheap wine and good wines, a wall of cheese and some good ready to heat meals.

Versus West O and Elkhorn being more like 4 kids and a mandatory Sams Club / Costco trip every other week to stock the deep freezer.

Trader Joes and Whole Foods target the richest zip codes in the cities they build stores. Take that for what it is.

[Renovator2559]

The living spaces at the Civic are targeted to be affordable, it doesn't make sense to place a Trader Joes. If the apartments are affordable and the store is highend, it will be a mismatch that will not make the Civic site successful.

Why do we need a store with a wall of wines if we have several wine stores in downtown? We need a large store that has plenty of food options and not a smaller selection of food with a large selection of wines; that would make us still have to drive to a large store.

[iamjacobm]

Trader Joe's is unlikely at the Civic Site. They apparently require a pretty high median income for the surrounding neighborhood, about $100,000 if I understand correctly. I don't believe downtown is there yet.

The Traders Joes in Omaha is always pretty crowded. Seldom do I go there and it's empty. Could see another one in Omaha at some point but probably be out farther west in the Elkhorn area. They don't seem to be in a big rush to build more stores. Doubt they would go downtown.

Why is that?

Elkhorn is entirely too small, Trader Joe's seems to like the Urban format.

Plus, the downtown / midtown demographic is surely more their target demographic. Hip foods, cheap wine and good wines, a wall of cheese and some good ready to heat meals.

Versus West O and Elkhorn being more like 4 kids and a mandatory Sams Club / Costco trip every other week to stock the deep freezer.

The DSM Trader Joe's is in West Des Moines, the Lincoln Trader Joe's is in the south burbs, KC's Trader Joe's are in Overland Park, the Wichita Trader Joe's is in the burbs.

I think the stereotype of that brand doesn't really match up with their business plan in our region. It would be cool if they did end up DT, but I don't think that appears to be high on their list of priorities. They probably look for areas with above-average income would be my guess, less so where hip people live.

[Athomsfere]

Trader Joes and Whole Foods target the riches zip codes in the cities they build stores. Take that for what it is.

And the downtown location, and the current location are in the same bucket. Mid 60's. So neither is exactly in a rich zipcode.

Elkhorn I believe is on the wealthier side, and not just because I have no clue why someone would suffer out there... But it just doesn't make sense for a Trader Joe's to choose out there to me. They seem to be the antithesis of suburban developments.

Even just looking at how they intentionally build "small" parking lots for all of their locations. Not the sort of thing the land of Tahoes and other minivans would love to have.

[Athomsfere]

Trader Joe's is unlikely at the Civic Site. They apparently require a pretty high median income for the surrounding neighborhood, about $100,000 if I understand correctly. I don't believe downtown is there yet.

The Traders Joes in Omaha is always pretty crowded. Seldom do I go there and it's empty. Could see another one in Omaha at some point but probably be out farther west in the Elkhorn area. They don't seem to be in a big rush to build more stores. Doubt they would go downtown.

Why is that?

Elkhorn is entirely too small, Trader Joe's seems to like the Urban format.

Plus, the downtown / midtown demographic is surely more their target demographic. Hip foods, cheap wine and good wines, a wall of cheese and some good ready to heat meals.

Versus West O and Elkhorn being more like 4 kids and a mandatory Sams Club / Costco trip every other week to stock the deep freezer.

The DSM Trader Joe's is in West Des Moines, the Lincoln Trader Joe's is in the south burbs, KC's Trader Joe's are in Overland Park, the Wichita Trader Joe's is in the burbs.

I think the stereotype of that brand doesn't really match up with their business plan in our region. It would be cool if they did end up DT, but I don't think that appears to be high on their list of priorities. They probably look for areas with above-average income would be my guess, less so where hip people live.

Wichita (Man, they finally landed one) is in Bradley Fair. That's like the 30 year old Wichita version of Village Point. Not the burbs.

KC is basically just one giant suburb, but Overland Park still isn't nearly as isolated as Elkhorn is. Especially for the location there.

And same with West DSM.


If Trader Joe's opened something at say Village Point (yuck) I wouldn't be surprised.

Elkhorn wouldn't make any sense to me though. An urban location would.

I wouldn't bet on an urban location. Omaha has a hard time getting anything downtown so far.