Athomsfere wrote: Tue Aug 01, 2023 11:29 am
But it just doesn't make sense for a Trader Joe's to choose out there to me. They seem to be the antithesis of suburban developments.
Yet here they are, making money hand over fist in these suburban locations.
I’ll prefer to trust their leadership’s judgment on their location strategy.
Athomsfere wrote: Tue Aug 01, 2023 11:29 am
But it just doesn't make sense for a Trader Joe's to choose out there to me. They seem to be the antithesis of suburban developments.
Yet here they are, making money hand over fist in these suburban locations.
I’ll prefer to trust their leadership’s judgment on their location strategy.
We can speculate and fantasize all we want. I think all that's important is attracting a grocer that has a well balanced selection of groceries. It's doesn't matter who it is.
Dusty wrote: Tue Aug 01, 2023 1:06 pm
We can speculate and fantasize all we want. I think all that's important is attracting a grocer that has a well balanced selection of groceries. It's doesn't matter who it is.
Agreed. Cosentino’s would be fantastic here based on that. One thing to consider is the number of hotels in the area as well - the availability of freshly made foods / breakfast buffet there would be a great plus.
Athomsfere wrote: Tue Aug 01, 2023 11:29 am
But it just doesn't make sense for a Trader Joe's to choose out there to me. They seem to be the antithesis of suburban developments.
Yet here they are, making money hand over fist in these suburban locations.
I’ll prefer to trust their leadership’s judgment on their location strategy.
But none of those suburban locations are in the absolute out stretches of exburbia. Suburban like the current Pacific Place location and Elkhorn are entirely different.
I don’t know what to tell you. Elkhorn isn’t isolated. Today, that’s pretty connected development from downtown to Elkhorn. You said an urban location makes sense - Trader Joe’s has success in suburban spots. I’m going to side with their leadership on what works.
NEDodger wrote: Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:47 pm
Elkhorn isn’t isolated. Today, that’s pretty connected development from downtown to Elkhorn.
You mean Elkhorn can be reached by car from downtown and vice versa.
If Elkhorn was connected as you say, Elkhorn would easily connect to another neighborhood like Midtown Crossing and Blackstone, Gifford Park, Dundee are, as they are reachable by foot, transit and car.
Elkhorns downtown is surrounded by a sea of giant blocks of single family homes, strip mall and parking lot galore. As well as traffic funneled into a few wide streets that are prone to congest and prone to make commutes in the area longer.
Renovator2559 wrote: Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:10 pm
You mean Elkhorn can be reached by car from downtown and vice versa.
If Elkhorn was connected as you say, Elkhorn would easily connect to another neighborhood like Midtown Crossing and Blackstone, Gifford Park, Dundee are, as they are reachable by foot, transit and car.
Elkhorns downtown is surrounded by a sea of giant blocks of single family homes, strip mall and parking lot galore. As well as traffic funneled into a few wide streets that are prone to congest and prone to make commutes in the area longer.
And entirely irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Go beat this dead horse over in the Bar & Grill section.
Renovator2559 wrote: Tue Aug 01, 2023 11:28 am
The living spaces at the Civic are targeted to be affordable, it doesn't make sense to place a Trader Joes. If the apartments are affordable and the store is highend, it will be a mismatch that will not make the Civic site successful.
Why do we need a store with a wall of wines if we have several wine stores in downtown? We need a large store that has plenty of food options and not a smaller selection of food with a large selection of wines; that would make us still have to drive to a large store.
Trader Joe's is not high end. Prices are low and quality varies by product. Also TJ's is not for oenophiles. Their house brands are typically off vintage or mediocre in some other capacity. You're not getting the same quality and value you'd get with say Costco's Kirkland label.
TitosBuritoBarn wrote: Mon Jul 31, 2023 10:44 pm
Trader Joe's is unlikely at the Civic Site. They apparently require a pretty high median income for the surrounding neighborhood, about $100,000 if I understand correctly. I don't believe downtown is there yet.
Is that household or individual? In Denver's Capitol Hill neighborhood they have a store that's always filled with 20-30 something hipsters who I can't imagine make even 50k.
NEDodger wrote: Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:47 pm
I don’t know what to tell you. Elkhorn isn’t isolated. Today, that’s pretty connected development from downtown to Elkhorn. You said an urban location makes sense - Trader Joe’s has success in suburban spots. I’m going to side with their leadership on what works.
Apparently my source was misinformed about the income requirements for a Trader Joes. Rather they tend to locate in areas that have moderately higher household median incomes than the average, but have no real formula. Sorry.
Sprouts Farmers Market looks like a great store. They have stores in Kansas, Missouri, Colorado, etc, but looks like they started in the south. From a presentation point of view, they look phenomenal. I've never set foot inside one, but something like this would be fantastic
I brought up Sprouts quite a bit under the Urban Grocery Store thread. They remind me a lot of Fresh Thyme. Their size and selection makes them a good match for downtown Omaha.
I only buy organic produce but don't care about processed foods labeled as organic, now that is BS. So if Sprouts has it, than that's good
As long as the store targets the demographic of the Civic site and its a match, I'm good.
Renovator2559 wrote: Wed Aug 02, 2023 10:10 am
I only buy organic produce but don't care about processed foods labeled as organic, now that is BS. So if Sprouts has it, than that's good
As long as the store targets the demographic of the Civic site and its a match, I'm good.
With currently 25-30% share of residential units planned being affordable housing, I want to see Aldi being high on White Lotus's list of possible grocery tenants. No-nonsense grocer that will provide the fresh produce and meats that's needed in downtown, for an affordable price. Would be good for college students and others who may not be on the highest income levels that live nearby. The example shared above from Chicago would be great at the Civic Site. Also, I don't think building one here will interfere with the catchment of their North and South Omaha locations.
Umm. This discussion is all well and fun. But before you all decide whether to buy a Mercedes, a BMW, a Lexus or a Ford, realize that none of you are in a position to drive the car of your gastronomic dreams off the showroom floor and onto the Civic Square site. Bean counters in a city far away will make that call.
nativeomahan wrote: Wed Aug 02, 2023 11:14 am
Umm. This discussion is all well and fun. But before you all decide whether to buy a Mercedes, a BMW, a Lexus or a Ford, realize that none of you are in a position to drive the car of your gastronomic dreams off the showroom floor and onto the Civic Square site. Bean counters in a city far away will make that call.
I don't think anyone here expects the discussion to move the beans on the abacus of whoever is doing the counting...
nativeomahan wrote: Wed Aug 02, 2023 11:14 am
Umm. This discussion is all well and fun. But before you all decide whether to buy a Mercedes, a BMW, a Lexus or a Ford, realize that none of you are in a position to drive the car of your gastronomic dreams off the showroom floor and onto the Civic Square site. Bean counters in a city far away will make that call.
I don't think anyone here expects the discussion to move the beans on the abacus of whoever is doing the counting...
Renovator2559 wrote: Wed Aug 02, 2023 10:10 am
I only buy organic produce but don't care about processed foods labeled as organic, now that is BS. So if Sprouts has it, than that's good
As long as the store targets the demographic of the Civic site and its a match, I'm good.
With currently 25-30% share of residential units planned being affordable housing, I want to see Aldi being high on White Lotus's list of possible grocery tenants. No-nonsense grocer that will provide the fresh produce and meats that's needed in downtown, for an affordable price. Would be good for college students and others who may not be on the highest income levels that live nearby. The example shared above from Chicago would be great at the Civic Site. Also, I don't think building one here will interfere with the catchment of their North and South Omaha locations.
Here is an Aldi in Lisbon, in the ground floor, under three floors of apartments, without any surface parking around.
From memory, most of the Aldi's in Germany were also what we would call an "urban format". Its not newsworthy in most of the worlds to have decent city planning, lol
I was bored and looking at the falcon cam from woodmen and noticed there is a white trailer on site here. can't tell if there's a logo on it or not because it's not a very clear image. Anyone know?
yeah, me too. I saw the trailer down there over the weekend and couldn't remember if anyone mentioned it. Then I remembered I already commented on it almost 3 months ago...and got depressed no progress has been made
thenewguy wrote: Wed Jan 10, 2024 1:45 pm
yeah, me too. I saw the trailer down there over the weekend and couldn't remember if anyone mentioned it. Then I remembered I already commented on it almost 3 months ago...and got depressed no progress has been made
IF White Lotus follows through, since they have 2 years from July/August '23, we'll start seeing infrastructure work, like the new streets, maybe by the end of this year. That's my best guess. Hopefully with more friendly market conditions/interest rates in 2024, we will see movement here. Mark your calendars though; summer 2025 will come around fast.
ita wrote: Wed Jan 10, 2024 2:08 pmIF White Lotus follows through, since they have 2 years from July/August '23, we'll start seeing infrastructure work, like the new streets, maybe by the end of this year. That's my best guess. Hopefully with more friendly market conditions/interest rates in 2024, we will see movement here. Mark your calendars though; summer 2025 will come around fast.
What if they do nothing with the property and summer 2025 rolls around? What will that deadline mean? Would they have to resubmit all the plans for approval with planning board again?
ita wrote: Wed Jan 10, 2024 2:08 pmIF White Lotus follows through, since they have 2 years from July/August '23, we'll start seeing infrastructure work, like the new streets, maybe by the end of this year. That's my best guess. Hopefully with more friendly market conditions/interest rates in 2024, we will see movement here. Mark your calendars though; summer 2025 will come around fast.
What if they do nothing with the property and summer 2025 rolls around? What will that deadline mean? Would they have to resubmit all the plans for approval with planning board again?
Here's the paragraph regarding the commencement of work term of the purchase agreement:
Right to Repurchase. Buyer shall Commence Construction (as defined below), as set forth in the amended Redevelopment Plan, within two years of Closing. Buyer understands and agrees that it will make its best efforts to complete installation of a minimum of fifty percent (50%) of the public infrastructure within eighteen (18) months of Closing. “Commence Construction” shall mean the commencement of the construction of the footings, foundations and/or road work for a minimum of fifty percent of the total proposed infrastructure and building structures or fifty percent of the proposed building structures.. Buyer acknowledges and understands that any application for tax increment financing must be submitted to the City and approved by the Omaha City Council prior to the Commence Construction requirement can be fulfilled. If Buyer fails to satisfy this requirement and upon notice to the Buyer and sixty (60) days to cure, the City shall have the option to repurchase the Property for the Purchase Price. A memorandum of this right to repurchase shall be recorded against the Property at Closing.
So in short, at least 50% of the work must be complete in about a year from now or the city can start the process to buy it back. That's not a lot of time.
almighty_tuna wrote: Wed Jan 10, 2024 3:16 pm
So in short, at least 50% of the work must be complete in about a year from now or the city can start the process to buy it back. That's not a lot of time.
You have to remember, this is an option. City is not required to exercise the buyer option, at least right away. The Summer 2025 deadline is interesting because of the mayoral election happening in the Spring.
almighty_tuna wrote: Wed Jan 10, 2024 3:16 pm
So in short, at least 50% of the work must be complete in about a year from now or the city can start the process to buy it back. That's not a lot of time.
Not quite, it just requires 50% of the public infrastructure (i.e. sidewalks and streets) be complete in 18 months. The rest is that they have to have commenced construction of footings/foundations of 50% of the entire project (so really, not that much).
almighty_tuna wrote: Wed Jan 10, 2024 3:16 pm
So in short, at least 50% of the work must be complete in about a year from now or the city can start the process to buy it back. That's not a lot of time.
Not quite, it just requires 50% of the public infrastructure (i.e. sidewalks and streets) be complete in 18 months. The rest is that they have to have commenced construction of footings/foundations of 50% of the entire project (so really, not that much).
It doesn't sound like much, and granted, this is not a direct comparison since this is a much smaller scale, but Crossroads has been under construction for a couple years now and they haven't put in any foundations for buildings from what I can tell. I don't know how confident I should be with White Lotus getting to that 50% mark in a year and a half. They've done a lot of good projects in the region, but they aren't exactly known for getting stuff done in a short amount of time.
I wonder if they have similar requirements in their development agreement with the City of Lincoln for the old Pershing site.
Their design is like a 6/10 for what I want there. And I'm honestly not sure if what they have proposed so far is that much better than an empty lot that could be better split and utilized by multiple developers.
almighty_tuna wrote: Wed Jan 10, 2024 3:16 pm
So in short, at least 50% of the work must be complete in about a year from now or the city can start the process to buy it back. That's not a lot of time.
Not quite, it just requires 50% of the public infrastructure (i.e. sidewalks and streets) be complete in 18 months. The rest is that they have to have commenced construction of footings/foundations of 50% of the entire project (so really, not that much).
It doesn't sound like much, and granted, this is not a direct comparison since this is a much smaller scale, but Crossroads has been under construction for a couple years now and they haven't put in any foundations for buildings from what I can tell. I don't know how confident I should be with White Lotus getting to that 50% mark in a year and a half. They've done a lot of good projects in the region, but they aren't exactly known for getting stuff done in a short amount of time.
I wonder if they have similar requirements in their development agreement with the City of Lincoln for the old Pershing site.
The Crossroads analogy is appropriate in that both projects are supposed to be built in entirety rather than phases. That makes more sense to me for Crossroads but I still fail to see that being an advantage here especially in light of economic conditions. That sounds like an uphill battle to get all their ducks in a row; including potential retail partners, an office tenant, affordable & market rate apartments and speculative condos I don't know who would want to live in. And if Noddle secures a grocery tenant first that's certainly not going to help. I'm hoping for the best here, but more skeptical of this project vs Crossroads.
On Friday, the White Lotus Group reaffirmed its commitment to bring a grocery store to downtown Omaha. "Our conversations with grocery partners are ongoing," a spokesperson said in a statement. "It’s more a question of who and when rather than if and where." On Friday, the White Lotus Group reaffirmed its commitment to bring a grocery store to downtown Omaha. "Our conversations with grocery partners are ongoing," a spokesperson said in a statement. "It’s more a question of who and when rather than if and where."
Veit is from the East Coast, but says he moved to Omaha because he wanted to find an affordable place to live downtown. "I like the walkability, being able to just head out the apartment and not having to get into the car and just find what I'm looking for," he said. There are a few small convenience stores, but there isn't a full grocery store downtown.
Sorry.
